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> Feedback from my first PH cycle, Comments welcome & encouraged!
Posted: Aug 30 2004, 07:01 PM
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Victory,

Just a quick question, I have the same issues regarding Blood Pressure as you,
what exactly did you do to combat that? Great work man...
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Posted: Aug 30 2004, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (BBJ72 @ Aug 30 2004, 07:01 PM)
Victory,

Just a quick question, I have the same issues regarding Blood Pressure as you,
what exactly did you do to combat that? Great work man...

Thanks for the kind words.

I took Twinlab's Blood Pressure Control (available on this site), recommended to me by Max32, and Coenzyme Q10. I did not succeed in getting my blood pressure down to what most consider ideal; during PH cycles my BP would hover at the high 130s/80s, sometimes going up to as high as 145/95, but I keep my cycles fairly short so once I stop my BP normalizes fairly quickly.

If you have access to scripts like captopril you may want to consider taking such, barring any contraindications.
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Posted: Aug 30 2004, 07:13 PM
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Thanks for the tips, I will check the Twinlab stuff out for sure.
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Posted: Sep 2 2004, 10:31 AM
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I really don't have anything 'informative' to add to this thread, however I would just like to say that I for one thoroughly appreciate the detail you have put into your posts victory and the way you have 'eased' into your PH experience. It concerns me when I read about all these guys, young and old, jumping into PH's with what seems to be absolutely zero regard or appreciation for the effects that Ph's have on the body. I have only tried PH's once, over a year ago, if I were to try them again, I would most definitly follow the example that you have set forth in this thread.

Thanks
Jeff
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Posted: Sep 7 2004, 06:44 AM
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Thanks, Jeff and BBJ72. Update on my progress: Started a cutting cycle 12 weeks ago and am now at 196 pounds. Used Methyl-Dien for 6 weeks (1st week at 6mg, building up to 12mg ED by week 6) with 600mg of r-ALA and 3 caps of 1fast400 ProLiver and then did 4 weeks of PCT with MetaCort. I have technically been off PH's for 6 weeks. I lost a bit of size from my starting point at 210, but I consider that an inevitable part of cutting. I am very happy with the results: My measurements are the same as they were after my first PH cycle (17.5 inch arms, etc. at 205.5 pounds) -- but I have lost more than 3 inches off my waist. So I am essentially as big as I was at 205/206 pounds but ten pounds lighter and looking much bigger because my waist is smaller.

I cannot properly evaluate MD's worth as a bulking agent since I used it for cutting, but for helping keep LBM despite higher cardio and a lower calorie diet I think it worked pretty well for me. I plan to do only 3-4 cycles over the course of a year, taking off as much time off as I do "on" -- my next bulking cycle will be in October, which would mean 10 weeks off. I'll be getting complete bloodwork done before I start my next cycle to make sure everything is A-OK.
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Posted: Sep 17 2004, 09:34 PM
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Victory,
first off let me say congrats on your progress; you've done exceptionally well in many differnet aspects. Second, its great to read informative posts like yours, keep up the great work!! biggrin.gif I have a few questions for ya, I noticed you have used 6-oxo, metacort, and nolva for PCT. Which one did you like the best and why? (in terms of results vs side effects) I'm still trying to find the best one for me. Also it sound like your cutting cylce went well. Are you planning on using methyl-dien in the future for cutting? Never used cutting agents before but would like to start- been bulking lately. I was first thinking vasapro with caffeine and maybe adding methyl-dien or m40hn nd r-ala after that. Guess i'm not sure yet since i am hoping to run another bulking cylce soon. by the way stats are 6'0 190lbs 11-12%bf.
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Posted: Sep 18 2004, 08:41 AM
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QUOTE (bmarks @ Sep 17 2004, 09:34 PM)
Victory,
first off let me say congrats on your progress; you've done exceptionally well in many differnet aspects. Second, its great to read informative posts like yours, keep up the great work!! biggrin.gif I have a few questions for ya, I noticed you have used 6-oxo, metacort, and nolva for PCT. Which one did you like the best and why? (in terms of results vs side effects) I'm still trying to find the best one for me. Also it sound like your cutting cylce went well. Are you planning on using methyl-dien in the future for cutting? Never used cutting agents before but would like to start- been bulking lately. I was first thinking vasapro with caffeine and maybe adding methyl-dien or m40hn nd r-ala after that. Guess i'm not sure yet since i am hoping to run another bulking cylce soon. by the way stats are 6'0 190lbs 11-12%bf.

Thanks, bmarks, for your kind words. My responses to your questions:

1. I used a combo of Nolva and MetaCort for PCT after my MD cutting cycle. I quite liked it, and given the price for which I got it ($19.99 per bottle special over here way back when for MetaCort) I would probably use this combo again. Oral 6OXO probably worked just as fine, though, although MetaCort has the advantage of having 7-OXO-DHEA thrown in for good measure. No real sides to speak of with both options, aside from a little acne which I am not sure I should attribute to these compounds (because the acne began during the androgen cycle and started tapering off afterwards).

2. I was pretty happy with MD as a cutting agent but as I noted above I used pretty high doses. Given the price for which it's available now it's OK, though. I plan to try M4OHN for my next cutting cycle, and I'll post my results after that's done. Given the impending ban, though, I've stocked up on enough MD and M4OHN for a couple of cycles.

Good luck!
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Posted: Sep 21 2004, 02:21 AM
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Victory,

I must say after reading these forums for the last two months (in an effort to become educated) yours is one of the best and clearly outlined posts I have read. Thanks and keep up the great work. I too have just started my first cycle of 1AD at 300mg/day. As I am on day 2 nothing to report other than increased strength in a couple of exercises. (which could be a purely psychological effect)

A few questions for you.

1) During your first cycle what other supps were you taking? Currently I am using Creatine and Whey Protein.

2) Did you have any sides on the two week cycle or PCT with 6 OXO? You have mentioned acne in later cycles but I was wondering about your first one (If you remember)

Just to let you know I was thinking of using the 1AD in a different way in that I have been cutting for 4 weeks approx 500 cal deficit) I am now increasing calories to eliminate the calorie deficit while on 1AD. My overall goal is to over the next 3 months decrease my bodyfat % into the 17% range and gain about 5-10 pounds of muscle.

Any advice you could give based on your research and experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Weight 217
height 5'10"
BF% 24%
Chest 46"
Waist 38"
Arms 17.5"

New Guy
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Posted: Sep 21 2004, 05:02 PM
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QUOTE (Rod42753 @ Sep 21 2004, 02:21 AM)
Victory,

I must say after reading these forums for the last two months (in an effort to become educated) yours is one of the best and clearly outlined posts I have read. Thanks and keep up the great work. I too have just started my first cycle of 1AD at 300mg/day. As I am on day 2 nothing to report other than increased strength in a couple of exercises. (which could be a purely psychological effect)

A few questions for you.

1) During your first cycle what other supps were you taking? Currently I am using Creatine and Whey Protein.

2) Did you have any sides on the two week cycle or PCT with 6 OXO? You have mentioned acne in later cycles but I was wondering about your first one (If you remember)

Just to let you know I was thinking of using the 1AD in a different way in that I have been cutting for 4 weeks approx 500 cal deficit) I am now increasing calories to eliminate the calorie deficit while on 1AD. My overall goal is to over the next 3 months decrease my bodyfat % into the 17% range and gain about 5-10 pounds of muscle.

Any advice you could give based on your research and experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Weight 217
height 5'10"
BF% 24%
Chest 46"
Waist 38"
Arms 17.5"

Thanks, Rod42753, for your kind words. Here are my replies to your questions:

1. I was using creatine and whey protein as well during my first cycle, along with basic multivitamins, but note that I was taking these supplements before I started my cycle -- so that I could properly attribute any gains to the marginal PH intake.

2. I experienced some lethargy and some outbreak of acne during my cycle, but it was not too bad. I took in 5g of Vit B5 ED to counteract the acne, and for particularly big nasty ones I applied a dose of benzoyl peroxide (OTC, available in any pharmacy). Worked fine for me. Lethargy disappeared after my cycle and acne disappeared into my PCT.

I have not used 1AD in a cutting cycle but I expect it would help maintain muscle mass despite the caloric deficit. Just don't expect massive strength and size gains given that you're eating less. The only way you're going to drop seven percentage points in bodyfat over the next 3 months is for you to go on a fairly strict diet so any gains in muscle should be considered a plus. That said, given that this is your first PH cycle then you may indeed gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. But everyone responds differently so if after a week you aren't happy with your results I would change one variable (eat more? Up dosage of 1AD a bit?) at a time and see how that works. Change stuff around too much and it will be difficult to figure out what's really working and what ought to be fine-tuned.

Good luck!
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Posted: Sep 21 2004, 06:46 PM
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I just want to echo the ones that said this is a great journal. I've always enjoyed reading your posts, victory, because you're always as objective and complete as possible. This log is no exception.

Congrats on the gains, too.

"I don't like people who take drugs...Customs men, for example." - Mitch Miller
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Posted: Sep 21 2004, 06:58 PM
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QUOTE (Kow @ Sep 21 2004, 06:46 PM)
I just want to echo the ones that said this is a great journal. I've always enjoyed reading your posts, victory, because you're always as objective and complete as possible. This log is no exception.

Congrats on the gains, too.

Thanks, Kow. Your advice and counsel played a big part in whatever "success" I am supposed to have achieved from these past few cycles. I will continue to update this journal also as a reminder to myself to stick to my goals and keep on chugging -- and PH or no PH, the best development one can achieve is built over long periods of time measured in years, not weeks or months.

I am excited to begin my cycle this October 1, which will be a "lean bulk" cycle. So far I am at 193.5 pounds (as of today), still as big as I was at 205/206, but strength gains have slowed down a bit. My objective is to bring back some of the lean mass I lost since I began my cutting cycle last June 1, but not to the extent of upping my cals so much that I gain back inches on my waist.

This "lean bulk" cycle will last for two weeks, with two weeks of PCT, and I will try 5mg ED of M1T to see how it works for me and whether I should stock up on it before the ban or if the sides that a lot of people seem to be complaining about are simply intolerable. Note that I now have eight months of experience with PH's before I even decided to begin a cycle with something as harsh as M1T!

To prepare for the stress that M1T is supposed to cause I have begun taking 400mg of r-ALA and 2 caps of 1fast400 ProLiver five days ago, which means I will have built up 2 weeks of "liver strengthening time" before beginning my M1T cycle on October 1. I will up r-ALA to 600mg ED and ProLiver to 3 caps a day while on cycle. PCT will be MetaCort and Nolva, tapering down over 2 weeks.

Would appreciate any feedback or inputs! Thanks, and I'll keep you all posted!
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Posted: Sep 21 2004, 07:11 PM
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As well as you respond to androgens, 5mg is probably the right place to start. You may want to put some oral or transdermal 4-AD in there as well to help with lethargy; plus, since it's a bulk, the extra test/estrogen/overall anabolism certainly wouldn't hurt. 600mg orally or 200mg transdermally (half dose of 4Derm; 5 total sprays/day) should do fine for 5mg; if you get up to 10mg, 900mg orally or 300-400mg transdermally would definitely help you along.

"I don't like people who take drugs...Customs men, for example." - Mitch Miller
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Posted: Sep 21 2004, 08:36 PM
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QUOTE (Kow @ Sep 21 2004, 07:11 PM)
As well as you respond to androgens, 5mg is probably the right place to start. You may want to put some oral or transdermal 4-AD in there as well to help with lethargy; plus, since it's a bulk, the extra test/estrogen/overall anabolism certainly wouldn't hurt. 600mg orally or 200mg transdermally (half dose of 4Derm; 5 total sprays/day) should do fine for 5mg; if you get up to 10mg, 900mg orally or 300-400mg transdermally would definitely help you along.

Thanks, Kow. You're right about the 4AD, almost overlooked that. I have oral 4AD handy and will take it if the lethargy gets too hard to handle. Otherwise I like evaluating how I respond to substances stand-alone. Hard for me to tell whether the gains come from the M1T or the 4AD if I start out taking both at the same time.

Since I've taken 600mg of 4AD in the past, 600 to 900mg of oral 4AD should be perfect for this upcoming cycle.

Thanks again! Will keep you posted.
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Posted: Sep 23 2004, 12:56 AM
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Victory,

just wanted to say thanks for the quick response. I would have responded a while ago but had a family emergency. I see your upcoming cycle is M-1T. I'm very interested to hear of your gains since the same cycle is in the future for me-down the road a little ways though. Also I was wondering what doses you're planning for Nolva and Metacort for PCT; do you use the same doses for all your cycles no matter the length? Thanks!
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Posted: Sep 23 2004, 06:19 AM
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QUOTE (bmarks @ Sep 23 2004, 12:56 AM)
Victory,

just wanted to say thanks for the quick response. I would have responded a while ago but had a family emergency. I see your upcoming cycle is M-1T. I'm very interested to hear of your gains since the same cycle is in the future for me-down the road a little ways though. Also I was wondering what doses you're planning for Nolva and Metacort for PCT; do you use the same doses for all your cycles no matter the length? Thanks!

Hope all is well, bmarks.

I start out with a (fairly) high dose of Nolva (40mg ED) and MetaCort (5 sprays twice a day) and taper down from there. Usually my PCT is as long as my cycle, then I spend 1-2 times that off to determine how much of the gains I actually end up keeping. So for the 2 week 1-AD/4-AD cycles in the past my PCT has been anywhere from 10-14 days; for the 6 week MD cycle I did a 6 week PCT, tapering down from the initial dose at a uniform rate.

Hope this helps!
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Posted: Oct 20 2004, 04:34 PM
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victory I read that 1-ad can convert to DHT which can lead to baldness did you take any DHT blockers with your 1-ad cycles?
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Posted: Oct 20 2004, 04:42 PM
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QUOTE (xZeroCrashx @ Oct 20 2004, 04:34 PM)
victory I read that 1-ad can convert to DHT which can lead to baldness did you take any DHT blockers with your 1-ad cycles?

Because of a family history of male pattern baldness I already apply a mix of minoxidil and azelaic acid topically. Not sure if I noticed any shedding from 1-AD supplementation; if it's at all comparable I probably noticed more shedding when I used 4-AD stacked with 1-AD.
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Posted: Dec 24 2004, 02:43 AM
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Just wanted to say that this thread has been a great resource, and that your receptiveness to PH's is unbelievable! 16lbs from a 2 week 1-AD cycle! Well deserved though.
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Posted: Dec 24 2004, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE (OmarJackson @ Dec 24 2004, 02:43 AM)
Just wanted to say that this thread has been a great resource, and that your receptiveness to PH's is unbelievable! 16lbs from a 2 week 1-AD cycle! Well deserved though.

Thanks, OmarJackson. My initial receptiveness to PH's was most probably just a newbie response; subsequent cycles never packed on more than 5-8 pounds over my typical two-weekers. Then again, I never did quite do a heavy bulking cycle like I did for this very first try. All I did were "lean bulks," focusing on dry gains.

All in all, I think my results in this first cycle were very much driven by every component of my regimen coming together: My health and strength levels were good, I was training hard and heavy, and was gobbling down good food and maintaining positive caloric balance. The 1-AD definitely helped kick my gains into overdrive, but I doubt that I would have gained so much if these other components of my regimen were not in check.

Just in case you might find it helpful, I created another review thread where I posted my evaluation of M1T/4AD and M4OHN:

My Review of M1T/4AD and M4OHN

Hope this helps!
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