So I 'm reading some of the posts on nutrition..... I see a couple of posts listing consumption of grams per day of fish oil.

Problem: what you think you're getting ain't necessarily so..

The second most common component, by mass, of both fresh water and marine fish are oils. THese oils are either saturated and unsaturated fatty acids.

EPA [eicosapentaenoic acid, 20:5(n-3)] and DHA [docosahexaenoic acid, 22:6(n-3)] are long-chain omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (LC omega-3 PUFA) essential in the human diet. The omega-3 PUFA are largely obtained through the diet since humans generally are unable to synthesize them. These are "good essential fatty acids", in that they are converted into prostanoids that counteract inflammation, PGE1 and PGE3.

Marine-derived omega-3 fatty acids have a wide range of potential health benefits, particularly with respect to the prevention of coronary heart disease and rheumatoid arthritis (these are chronic diseases with a underlying etiology of poorly controlled inflammatory response. These omega-3 (n-3) fatty acids also may play a role in modulating or preventing cancer (arachadonate bind sites on the surface of some cancer cells causes them to proliferate) and other disorders (such as chronic migraines, fibromyalgia, and neurological diseases), although further research and trials are required. Omega-3 fatty acids may be also beneficial for infant brain and retina function and development.


Omega-3 fatty acids increase the arachidonic acid content of liver cholesterol ester and plasma triacylglycerol fractions in the rat. Garg ML, Wierzbicki AA, Thomson AB, Clandinin MT. Biochem J. 1989 Jul 1;261(1):11-5.



Now the bad news...another quite common component of these fish oils are a group of fatty acids called acachondonates, abreviated as AA [arachidonic acid, 20:4(n-6)]. This is an omega-6 PUFA which is a precursor of prostaglandins (which modulate hormone activity) and other eicosanoids (C20 physiologically active compounds). Prostaglandins are synthesized from arachadonates in humans in a three-step reaction. The reaction product, PGE2 (or prostaglandin E2) is an inflammatory agent.

Here's the rationale for my advisiing moderation in consumption of fish oils:

(1) all essential fatty acids compete for access to the same three converting enzymes that lead to the production of both beneficial and detrimental prostaglandins. Since the relative content of the good essential fatty acids (n-3s) is higher in less oily fish (that is, the relative mass of n-3 to n-6 fatty acids is less than 1:1 or 50:50), less oily fish will produce less of an inflammatory potential than more oily fish. Guess what the industry uses?? Oily fish (fish oils are a by-product of fish processing).

(2) your body can only process so much essential fatty acids that are taken in thru diet or as a supplement. If you take a lot of a fish oil supplement, and the n-3 omega's are outmassed by the n-6s and n-9s (as in the case of oily marine fish that are the source of the fish oil) , and there is also a considerable component of AAs, then the supposed benefits are outmassed, in a very straightforward competition.

(3) the remaining essential fatty acids can be stored, temporarily, in cell membranes, but these are easily oxidized and used as an energy source. Arachadonates appear to be stored and released, which suggests that their detrimental effects may linger for days after consumption.

(4) fish oils are a naturally occuring "phase" within tissue in which hydrophobic contaminants, such as pesticides and the preservatives that were forumated with those pesticides (PCBs) bioaccumulate. These toxic contaminants are well-known to accumulate in many oily fish; fish consumption advisories have been documented in the press and verfied in a considerable body of scientific literature. These contaminants will also bioaccumulate in human fatty tissues (including fat deposits, liver and brain) that consume fish oils.

Therefore, excessive consumption of these fish oils may lead to unwanted effects.

As the most prominent component of marine fish, complete proteins, is also a desirable nutritive source for strength conditioning, it is advisable to consider *extreme* moderation in consumption of these concentrated oil supplements, regardless of the source (flax seed is common source of vegetable EFAs, with a mass ratio of approx 1:1 n-3s to n-6s).

It would more sensible, given the facts presented above, to add fish as a primary protein source no more than 3-4 times per week (due to the presence of heavy metals, pesticides, chlorinated solvents, and other carcinogens and that also bioaccumlate in fish tissue).

Food for thought.
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In response to a reply to this post, a partial listing of applicable references is supplied:

Competition among fatty acids for prostanoid biosynthesis:
http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/tripping.html
http://lansbury.bwh.harvard.edu/fish_oil_reviews.htm
http://www.asthmaworld.org/OMEGA3.htm

Omega-3 fatty acids increase the arachidonic acid content of liver cholesterol ester and plasma triacylglycerol fractions in the rat. Garg ML, Wierzbicki AA, Thomson AB, Clandinin MT. Biochem J. 1989 Jul 1;261(1):11-5.

Essential fatty acids: content of in various foods: http://www.annecollins.com/dietary-fat/ome...efa-6-chart.htm

Fatty acid content in milk (ref to another post which also describes fatty acids effects in cheese): http://www.fao.org/ag/AGA/AGAP/FRG/AFRIS/DATA/335.htm

Fish oils, fatty acids, and inflammatory response:
http://www.findarticles.com/g2603/0003/260...1/article.jhtml

Fish oils and pesticides:
http://www.udoerasmus.com/articles/press/2002_06_fishoil.htm
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/fw/fwNut05Fish.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn31/pn31p19c.htm
http://www.drweil.com/app/cda/drw_cda.html...uestionId=93664

Please make sure to reference articles like this to avoid copyright infringements. If it is just a post my someone of a random forum, give credit to them.

Yes, as many often fail to realize, one's dietary FA intake & subsequent phospholipid membrane make-up (and their physiological effects) represent(s) a very multi-faceted/dimensional picture with ramifications for prostaglandins/cytokine-synthesis, glucose uptake/disposal, adipocyte differentiation, inflammation, ion transport, & a shit-load of other processes, with the key players really being N-3 FAs, N-6 FAs, and Arachrondic Acid (AA).

Without getting unnecessarily wordy/complex, the "Book of Loki" recommends the following:

For Cutting:

- 6-10g Fish Oil or <

- @ least 40-50% of dietary FA intake should be from N-3s

- However, @ least 25% of dietary FA intake should come from Olive Oil

- Dieter's should make sure that they are getting sufficient Selenium & supplementing with alpha-tocopherol (Vit. E) due to their synergistic effects on lipid peroxidation & AA repletion in a hypocaloric state

- Minimize saturated FA intake as much as possible

- (Optional: Replace primary remainder of FA intake [after accounting for N:3s/N:6s with MCTs)


For Bulking:

- 6-10g Fish Oil, but no more

- At least 40-50% of dietary FA intake should be N-6 (Olive Oil, Natty PB &/or Nut Butters, etc.)

- Minimize saturated FA intake as much as possible, although some saturated fat from eggs, dairy & red meat may be beneficial

- Dieter's should make sure that they are getting sufficient Selenium & supplementing with alpha-tocopherol (Vit. E) due to their synergistic effects on lipid peroxidation & AA repletion [edit: this is also beneficial, I am pretty certain, when promoting anabolism is a primary focus as well...]

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Cover these bases and one need not overly worry about one's N:3:N:6:N:9-balance &/or phospholipid membrane make-up, and should be in good shape given each's respective goals...

My point:

If you are trying to build muscle, an inevitable response is that overloaded muscle fibers are damaged, then rebuilt (stronger).

If you are taking "good fats" in significant quantity, you may also be ingesting larger than necessary amounts of (a) calories and ( the fats that cause inflammation.

If you inadvertantly increase the inflammatory response, you lengthen and increase the severity of the response to muscle damage, increasing the rest time required before beneficial muscle fiber replacement begins to occur. You get no additional muscle fiber building benefit, but you do increase the probability of substantial pain and swelling if and when a training related injury occurs.

Once again, guys, when you post articles & whatnot here, could you please cite them? The last thing 1Fast needs these days is a heaping slew of copywrite litigation...

Agreed.

dg806, I'm editing your post - that appears to be copyrighted (I found the original article). Apologies, but better safe than sorry. Next time at least provide a link from where you got it (even if it's just another forum), or quickly paraphrase.

Are you a moderator? I don't know if you are, but if the citations you supplied are supposed to be direct quotes that I lifted, you are wrong. The citations you supplied are simply another set of the dozens available on the net that describe the structure and physiological function of essential fatty acids.

I did paraphrase medical information, where pertinent. I will try to supply exact biochemical and medical research journal citations in the future.

I'm sort of a whore myself for the whole phenolic antioxidant-thing (and Olive Oil is straight up the richest dietary source, period), which inhibits oxidative stress just like Fish Oil while also offering bitchin' protection from free radicals. Nuts are heavily N:6 with just a small N:9 offering, whereas, conversely O-Oil is nearly all N:9. So that's one point. Continuing onwards, high O-Oil consumption is only linked to lowered rates of several cancers (colon, breast, skin), coronary heart disease, and the effects of aging.

The squalene and oleic acid-content of olive oil by itself puts any nut/nut-butter to bed without its toys (note: this is not in reference to taste however-- PB does & always will taste glorious...), and that hardly 'taps out' O-Oil's offerings-profile...

I had a feeling it was the anti-oxidant/inflammatory properties.

How do you get olive oil into your diet? I'm just curious... I'm not all that big on its taste, and I don't cook with it because of the low smoke point.

Any suggestions?

Mix a tablespoon in with protein powder & some cold water or milk and stir it into a pudding (or I suppose, shake). Generally--especially if your protein is chocolate-- you can't even taste the stuff. Although, to be honest, I think it tastes good, so I'll just take it straight up, put it on salads w. vinegar & other stuff in dressings, top some on sandwiches...

Basically, if there's a will, there's a way...

Thanks for the suggestions... I'll have to experiment.

Once you get used to taking straight flax or olive oil, it's actually not all that bad.

bump