First Cycle possibly Equipose/Winny |
1Fast400 Forums > Illicit Substances |
| Posted by: azfittrainer Dec 23 2004, 12:13 AM |
| Hi guys first posting here. I am considering doing a cycle of AAS's for the first time. I have don M1T in the past and have decent results (about 6-7lbs lean mass each cycle). I am 26, almost 27 6' 185lbs about 8% body fat (just finishing leaning out last month was at 175 at 5%). I have about 15 years training exeperience including several years of competitive Olympic style lifting and have a degree in exercise physiology so know the ramifications of long term steroid use. Ive always been a hard gainer, so do not want to put on massive amount of mass and weight now at 26 and have people wonder if I am taking AAS's. Im looking for modest gains (approximately 20lbs lean muscle), with as few estrogen/ low natural testerone side effects as possible, and as little bloating as possible too. Im willing to have slow gains as i wish to maintain as much of the gains as I can Post Cycle. I was considering either equipose on its own, or possibly stacked with Winstrol for approximately 1-2 cycles. I have Nolvadex and Clomid for PCT as well as 6 OXO, and milk thistle extract for liver health. I plan on doing high intensity Olympic style lifting combined with some traditional bodybuilding training approxiamtely an hour a day 4-5 times a week combined with 4,000-5,000 calorie diet with approximately 300 grams of protien a day as well as creatine, glutamine, and Arginine Alpha keto gluterate. Would like advice on dosages, length of cycle on these two drugs and other suggestions for lean gains with as few side effects and the most retention of gains afterwards |
| Posted by: sdf42450 Dec 23 2004, 01:16 AM |
| from the goals you stated, i would suggest test/eq as opposed to eq/winni mayb 300mg/wk test enanthate with 400mg/wk EQ for 10-12 wks then PCT |
| Posted by: azfittrainer Dec 23 2004, 02:10 AM |
| I thought Test is very androgenic and will supress natural test production and cause estro build up? Is this not true? I want to suppress natural Test as little as possible and avoid as much estrogen build up as possible |
| Posted by: sdf42450 Dec 23 2004, 02:32 AM |
| ANY exogenous hormone will supress testosterone to some degree. you say you want 20lbs, you aren't going to get that with EQ and winni a low dose of test will go a long way towards helping you get a litlte more mass and the sides of using a dose of test likethis will be less noticable than the sides you'd experience without it IMO |
| Posted by: Dave876 Dec 23 2004, 07:19 AM |
| I agree with what Sdf has to say...Keep in mind 20lbs is alot of weight to be asking so I would add some test as well...If you don't mind taking shots then prop would be a great choice for you because with prop you will far less if any water...I am 5'9 ~180lbs at the moment and did a prop/winny cycle over the summer and put on about 15lbs of lean mass... |
| Posted by: jehry Dec 23 2004, 11:24 AM |
| I've taken EQ and winny before. My gross gain was ~5lbs, but i lost some fat as well. Either way, 20lbs isn't happening--especially if you're a hardgainer, as you said. Now EQ is one of my favorites. Take it with some test and 20lbs starts to become more within the realm of reason. If you're worried about water gain and bloat, try the Prop, like Dave said. If you're too worried about the ED or EOD sticks, you could take enanthate and just run some femara along with it to help keep the water down, though prop will be your best choice. |
| Posted by: azfittrainer Dec 23 2004, 04:25 PM |
| Cool thanks, im talking about 20lbs over the next 12 month not from one cycle, I am a hard gainer but can put some muscle on, the two cycles of M1T i did helped me add about 11 lbs, so I dont think 20lbs is out of the range of possibility, if I take the test shots, what dosage shoudl I do and for how long? I wanna keep aromatization to a minimum. And whatever my gains are on the stack how much shouid expect to keep assuming proper nutrition and exercise? |
| Posted by: jehry Dec 23 2004, 04:34 PM |
| Peoples' definitions of 'proper diet and exercise' vary. A lot of people lose when they come off because they don't train and eat the same way they did while they were 'on'. You have to let your body get used to the new weight. I'd say, usually, you can keep almost everything if you come off right. Might lose anywhere from 5-10lbs, depending on what you do during PCT. Depends what you take, too, but in your case, i think keeping most of it is doable. It really just depends on you. I'd say 150mg test prop EOD for at least 8 weeks, with 10-12 being preferable. Add in 400mg per week of EQ and you'll have one helluva ride. Aromatization shouldn't be a problem with a cycle like that, but if you're worried about it, just get a good anti-e. Femara, arimidex, etc. It can't hurt to have it on hand in case aromatization does become a problem. |
| Posted by: azfittrainer Dec 23 2004, 04:37 PM |
| Yeah I have Nolva and Clomid for PCT.Im not really worried about what to do diet wise was just wondering how much I coudl expect to maintain after the cycle. I know some have lots of water gain and bloat. If i decided I wanted a little stronger mass builder what would everyone suggest? |
| Posted by: Dave876 Dec 23 2004, 05:06 PM |
| Well typiclly your stronger mass builders are going to carry the added price of bloat with them but the classic bulking cycle is test/deca/dbol Honestly I would run Test only your first cycle for 10-12 weeks,Then eat,and train like a mofo and trust me you won't be sorry... |
| Posted by: azfittrainer Dec 23 2004, 05:27 PM |
| How will test compare to the results ive gotten so far from M1T? How androgenic is it compared to that? |
| Posted by: under200 Dec 23 2004, 08:08 PM |
| Like everyone else has said. Test and EQ. my suggestions Sust 250 and EQ. 500mg of sust250 and 600mg of EQ, this is a weekly dose. The sust. will not add alot of water so don't worry. The EQ will make sure most of your gains stick. Sounds like you have the diet and drive along with will power (damn 5%bf) so that along with this suggestion and you should be great. Good luck. Under200 |
| Posted by: azfittrainer Dec 24 2004, 06:16 PM |
| Merry Christmas to all. Ok one more question if I do the Test Eq stack what types of gains should i expect based off the fact on M1T i gained approximately 7-8 lbs that I actually kept? And shoudl I do the Nolva during the cycle or afterwards with the Clomid? |
| Posted by: Dave876 Dec 25 2004, 10:16 AM |
| Az no one can tell you how much you will gain on a test/eq cycle based off of what you did durring a cycle of M1T it just does'nt work that way due to all the variables...I say do the cycle eat,train and rest then tell us about your gains afterwards...Keep nolva on hand while "ON" in case of any gyno symptoms,but if you don't need it then run it with your PCT... |
| Posted by: Saber41194 Dec 25 2004, 10:12 PM | ||
may be some 1mg armidex time to time can get rid of the estrogen . or plain nolva to avoid water bloat but estrogen have a great effect one Cholesterol !! so u are loosin this benifits |
| Posted by: azfittrainer Dec 27 2004, 01:09 AM |
| My cholesterol is pretty low already about 160 total, so dont really need to the estro. I just wanna put on muscle with relatively low aromitization and as little bloat as possible. HOw long should I do PCT if I do 8-10 of Test/EQ? |
| Posted by: sdf42450 Dec 27 2004, 02:36 AM | ||
until u've recovered |
| Posted by: jehry Dec 27 2004, 11:16 AM |
| At 500mg/400mg of test/EQ, ~4 weeks should do it. Again, it depends on one's body chemistry, but as a rule, that's long enough. But ALWAYS be prepared for whatever might arise. |
| Posted by: azfittrainer Dec 27 2004, 02:26 PM |
| How do I know ive recovered from the cycle, if theres no serious symptoms like nipple tenderness and bloating? Or should i expect these to happen? |
| Posted by: jehry Dec 27 2004, 03:50 PM |
| You can pretty much expect some bloating, depending on the test ester you use, i.e. prop, enth, cyp, etc. Prop will not bloat too much, but cyp and enth will. That will happen while you're ON, though, it should begin to go away afterwards. Nipple tenderness just depends on the person. Some people are really sensitive to androgens and others aren't to the same extent. You'll find out. That's why you should have nolva on hand DURING your cycle. I don't know if there's a way to really tell if you're fully recovered. I suppose you should just start to feel it. I don't believe someone FULLY recovers for prolly at least as long as their cycle was, but you don't take clomid and everything that long. Just long enough to get you back up and running. After that, your body should be able to sort things out. |
| Posted by: sdf42450 Dec 27 2004, 06:46 PM | ||
until the symptoms of low testosterone levels are gone and you are feeling like your old "precycle" self. |
| Posted by: Strateg0s Dec 27 2004, 07:02 PM | ||||
1mg of arimidex is too much. 0.25mg/d should be enough. Nolva isn't the same as arimidex, it just blocks the action of estrogen, it doesn't diminish estrogen levels. |
| Posted by: Jason2459 May 8 2008, 03:54 PM |
| Azfits first post..... after the M1T cycle.... |
| Posted by: willpiazza31 May 8 2008, 03:57 PM |
 this should be a good one |
| Posted by: azfittrainer May 8 2008, 03:57 PM |
| God, how dumb was I to even think about it back then. |
| Posted by: goodskie May 8 2008, 05:18 PM |
| throw in some test and not that dumb |
| Posted by: azfittrainer May 8 2008, 05:22 PM |
| At the time it would have been real stupid, with all my health problems. |
| Posted by: goodskie May 8 2008, 05:24 PM |
| ? such as |
| Posted by: azfittrainer May 8 2008, 05:28 PM |
| They almost removed my thyroid, I had lots of inflamation around my heart, and my hormones got all fucked up, and my gallbladder too |