1Fast400 Forums -> Prohormone/steroid/anti-estrogen FAQ's

shpongled

Posted: Mar 17 2004, 06:28 PM

Group: Members
Posts: 2078
Member No.: 8400
Joined: 26-September 03

Prohormone/steroid FAQ v. 1.0
by David Tolson
www.bulknutrition.com
last updated 3-17-04

This FAQ may be reproduced, as long as the entirety (including links) is included and it is not altered. For any questions, or to be notified of updates to the FAQ, email dvdtlsn@bulknutrition.com.

Note: In some places in this FAQ 1-testosterone or other steroids are grouped as under the category "prohormone." This is to avoid writing "prohormone/steroid" over and over, but the reader should take note that all prohormones are technically steroids, and many substances commonly referred to as "prohormones" do not require conversion to have an anabolic effect.

Contents

1.0: Basic questions
1.1: Where can I get some basic introductory information about prohormones before reading this FAQ?
1.2: After reading this FAQ, where can I go for more information on prohormones?
1.3: I heard prohormones have been banned. Is this true?
1.4: What is a "prosteroid?"
1.5: I'm under 21. Can I take prohormones?
1.6: What is the shelf-life of prohormones? How can I extend it?
1.7: How much weight/mass will I gain on my prohormone cycle?

2.0: Best prohormones/brands
2.1: Which prohormone is best?
2.2: Which brand is best?
2.3: Which prohormone products are best?
2.4: What do you think of this product by VPX/Biotest/Gaspari Nutrition? It is supposed to be 500% better without side effects.
2.5: What is the difference between 1-AD and oral 1-testosterone products? Which is better?
2.6: What is the best prohormone for the track athlete or other athlete more concerned with strength and endurance as opposed to muscle mass?
2.7: What is the best prohormone for losing fat?
2.8: What is the best prohormone for women?
2.9: What prohormone is best if I want to avoid side effects?
2.10: What prohormone gives the most gains with the least amount of side effects?
2.11: I weigh 140 lbs. and I am a "hard gainer." What prohormone should I use to help me gain weight and mass?
2.12: I just started working out. What prohormone should I use to help me reach my goals?

3.0: Delivery methods
3.1: Where can I find out about alternate delivery methods?
3.2: What delivery method is best?
3.3: Will transdermal delivery reduce bloat or other side effects?
3.4: What are the cypionate forms for?

4.0: How to take, how much to take
4.1: When should I take prohormones?
4.2: Should I take prohormones before working out? After?
4.3: Do I take prohormones on non-training days?
4.4: What dosage should I take?
4.5: I weigh 250 pounds, should I increase dosage?

5.0: Stacking
5.1: Can I stack 19-nordiol and 1-testosterone?
5.2: Should I take 1-AD or 1-testosterone along with M1T?
5.3: Product X contains 4-AD, 19-nor, 1-test, ZMA, MSM, etc.... What do you think?

6.0 Diet, training, and other supplements
6.1: How much weight training should I do on prohormones?
6.2: How much cardio should I do on prohormones?
6.3: What type of diet should I have on prohormones?
6.4: What type of diet should I have on prohormones if I am cutting?
6.5: What other supplements should I take on prohormones?
6.6: Should I take tribulus during my cycle?
6.7: Can I use Sytenhance along with prohormones?
6.8: Can I use ephedrine/caffeine alone with prohormones?
6.9: Can I take creatine along with prohormones?
6.10: Can I take whey protein along with prohormones?

7.0 Methyl-1-testosterone
7.1: I have never used prohormones or steroids before. How much methyl-1-test should I use and how long should I take it? Do I need to take anything else? Do I need to take anything afterwards?
7.2: Why shouldn't I use methyl-1-test if I have not used prohormones or steroids before? I have read a lot about it.
7.3: I usually don't respond to the recommend dosage of supplements. Should I start with a higher dosage?
7.4: How bad are the side effects from M1T?
7.5: When should I take methyl-1-test?
7.6: What can I do to protect my liver on M1T?
7.7: What can I do to prevent lethargy from M1T?
7.8: Why does stacking with 4-AD help with lethargy?
7.9: What other supplements should I take with M1T?
7.10: Can I take ephedrine/caffeine with M1T?
7.11: Will methyl-1-testosterone cause gyno? Do I need an anti-estrogen with methyl-1-testosterone?
7.12: Will methyl-1-testosterone cause hair loss?
7.13: Can I drink alcohol while on M1T? What about other drugs that are toxic to the liver?

8.0 Liver protection
8.1: Are liver protection/recovery supplements necessary on all prohormones/steroids?
8.2: I found a methyl-1-test product that says it doesn't cause liver toxicity. Is this possible?
8.3: What liver protection supplements should be taken, and how much?
8.4: What time of day should I take liver health supplements?
8.5: Do I take liver protection supplements before, during, or after my cycle?
8.6: If I take enough liver health supplements, will my liver be completely protected from the M1T?
8.7: Will liver protection supplements interfere with my gains?
8.8: Will the damage to my liver be permanent?

9.0 Side effects
9.1: Will the side effects go away when I am done with my cycle?
9.2: How do I avoid shutdown of natural testosterone production?
9.3: How likely am I to get gyno?
9.4: How can I prevent gyno?
9.5: How likely am I to lose my hair?
9.6: How can I prevent hair loss?
9.7: How can I prevent/reduce the possibility of BPH?
9.8: How can I prevent acne?
9.9: How can I prevent loss of libido?

10.0: Drug tests
10.1: Will prohormones show up on drug tests?
10.2: How long do prohormones stay in the system?
10.3: How can I pass a drug test?

11.0: Home-brewing/powders
11.1: How do I use bulk prohormone powders?
11.2: How much powder can I add to my Dermabolics product?
11.3: If I add in 5 grams of powder to the Transpor Matrix, what is the dose?
11.4: Can I add yohimbine, caffeine, or other powders that are not hormones to the Transport Matrix?
11.5: How much prohormone powder can I add to my Lipoderm? What about my Ab-Solved?
11.6: How do I make a cyclodextrin complex for sublingual/nasal delivery?

12.0 Cycling
12.1: What is the ideal cycle length?
12.2: How much time off should I take after my cycle?
12.3: How long into my cycle should I start seeing results?
12.4: How much of my gains will I lose after my cycle?
12.5: Do any prohormones require frontloading?
12.6: How long will my prohormone product last at the dosage I am taking?

13.0 Anti-estrogens
13.1: Should I use an anti-estrogen on cycle?
13.2: What is the best anti-estrogen to use on cycle?
13.3: Should I take formestane and 6-OXO? What about formestane and nolva? What about....
13.4: Should I take tribulus, ZMA, etc. during my cycle?
13.5: How much 6-OXO is in each capsule?
13.6: Are nolvadex and tamoxifen the same thing?
13.7: How often do I need to take my anti-estrogen?

14.0 Post-cycle therapy
14.1: Where can I get some basic information on anti-estrogens and post-cycle therapy?
14.2: I'm halfway through my cycle. Should I buy 6-OXO or nolva for post-cycle?
14.3: Assuming I only have access to legal products, what should I use for PCT?
14.4: Should I use formestane post-cycle?
14.5: One person says to use nolva post cycle, another says to use 6-OXO. I'm confused.
14.6: Is ZMA sufficient for post-cycle? Tribulus?
14.7: If I take an anti-estrogen during my cycle do I still need one post-cycle?
14.8: How long should PCT last?
14.9: How long after my cycle should I start PCT?
14.10: Can I start another cycle immediately after PCT?
14.11: I don't think I am shut down. Should I still do PCT?
14.12: Should I taper off the prohormone at the end of the cycle to help with recovery?
14.13: How should I train during PCT?
14.14: How should I eat during PCT?
14.15: What dosage of nolva should I use?

1.0: Basic questions

1.1: Where can I get some basic introductory information about prohormones before reading this FAQ?

Introduction to Prohormones: http://www.bulknutrition.com/?articleID=37
Introduction to Prohormones, Part II: http://www.bulknutrition.com/?articleID=75

1.2: After reading this FAQ, where can I go for more information on prohormones?

At the bottom of the Introduction to Prohormones articles, you can find many links for further information.

Another prohormone FAQ can be found here: http://forums.bulknutrition.com/?showtopic=26

Also, there are many articles on specific prohormones here: http://www.bulknutrition.com/?articles=1

1.3: I heard prohormones have been banned. Is this true?

No. A single prohormone, androstenedione, has been taken off the market. It is likely that more are soon to come, but it is impossible to tell exactly when. Some companies are taking their prohormone products off the shelves, but this is solely a marketing decision made by the companies. Prohormone products will still be available in various places until they are explicitly banned by the government.

1.4: What is a "prosteroid?"

It is a word that some companies and individuals use in place of "steroid." There are no difference between these substances and anabolic steroids save their legal status.

1.5: I'm under 21. Can I take prohormones?

No. Those under the age of 21 should not use prohormones, and there are many reasons given for this, some real and some imagined. Many of the arguments given for why younger people should not take prohormones are based on very bad science. These scare tactics and faulty arguments are partially understandable, since the main reasons younger people shouldn't use prohormones deal with issues such as responsibility and experience, and younger people tend to not listen to these reasons. All of the reasons not to use prohormones become amplified the younger you are, for example the risks are much greater under the age of 18. Some go so far as to say that you should not use prohormones if you are less than 25.

1.6: What is the shelf-life of prohormones? How can I extend it?

The answer to this question is not well known. Most prohormones probably have a shelf-life of 2-3 years, while some will degrade more quickly than others. If you plan on stocking up on prohormones, one of the best options is to purchase them vacuum sealed. They should also be kept in a cool dark place.

To buy vacuum sealed prohormones and supplements, see: http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=694

1.7: How much weight/mass will I gain on my prohormone cycle?

This is impossible to tell, even knowing specifics. Different people will have different reactions. If you have planned your cycle carefully and diet and training are in order you can expect to gain at least a few pounds of muscle mass. But the only way to really answer this question is by running the cycle.

2.0: Best prohormones/brands

2.1: Which prohormone is best?

There is no best prohormone. It depends on your goals, which side effects you think you can tolerate most easily, how much money you want to spend, and other factors. As a general rule of thumb, you want to start with a 1-AD/4-AD or 1-testosterone/4-AD stack. Opinions on this will vary from person to person.

2.2: Which brand is best?

In general, whichever is least expensive. Some brands have a consistent reputation of quality and low prices without deceptive advertising. The brands I recommend are:

1Fast400
Dermabolics
PK Enterprises
Ergopharm
Designer Supplements

2.3: Which prohormone products are best?

Transdermal products:
Any Dermabolics product

Oral products:
1,4-andro: 1Fast400 1,4 Andro
19-nordiol: Ergopharm Norandrodiol Select 300
1-AD: Ergopharm 1-AD
4-AD: Ergopharm Androdiol Select 300
1-test: Nutrex 1-TU
Methyl-1-test: Underground Labs M1T

2.4: What do you think of this product by VPX/Biotest/Gaspari Nutrition? It is supposed to be 500% better without side effects.

This product is overpriced and overhyped and the ingredient(s) are usually no different than those in less expensive products. Furthermore, the advertising is very deceptive, so make sure to check any of the claims made with other sources.

2.5: What is the difference between 1-AD and oral 1-testosterone products? Which is better?

1-AD is a prohormone to 1-testosterone, so the two are pretty much interchangeable. I recommend 1-AD because it has a longer history of positive feedback.

2.6: What is the best prohormone for the track athlete or other athlete more concerned with strength and endurance as opposed to muscle mass?

The top choices are 1,4-andro and DHT precursors. 1-testosterone and smaller amounts of 4-AD are also common. Prohormones that are androgenic and don't cause much water weight gain are ideal for these circumstances.

2.7: What is the best prohormone for losing fat?

The popular choices are similar to those mentioned above. 1-testosterone and either 1,4-andro or a small amount of 4-AD is a good choice.

2.8: What is the best prohormone for women?

A 19-nor prohormone should be used for starters because it is the least androgenic. If desired results are not achieved, 1,4-andro can be used, but it is more likely to result in androgenic side effects.

2.9: What prohormone is best if I want to avoid side effects?

The prohormones just mentioned, 19-nor and 1,4-andro.

2.10: What prohormone gives the most gains with the least amount of side effects?

As a general rule, the more effective the prohormone is, the more side effects it will cause. For good gains, sacrifices must be made, it just depends on how far you want to go. As mentioned above, 1-AD or 1-test along with 4-AD is about as good as it gets in terms of gains to side effects ratio.

2.11: I weigh 140 lbs. and I am a "hard gainer." What prohormone should I use to help me gain weight and mass?

With proper diet and training, anyone can gain weight and muscle without prohormones. While there is a point where it gets much more difficult (often called the "genetic limit,") most people who ask this question are not even close to it. The first important diet rule for gaining weight is to eat much more food than you are used to. Even on prohormones, significant gains cannot be made without increasing caloric intake. It is important to learn how to optimize diet and training before using prohormones.

2.12: I just started working out. What prohormone should I use to help me reach my goals?

For the reasons given above, you should not use prohormones until you have been training for at least a year, and preferably two or more. Although many people want immediate changes in body composition and jump into everything at once, this often results in injury and/or reliance on prohormones without the necessary knowledge of other important factors that comes with experience.

David Tolson

shpongled

Posted: Mar 17 2004, 06:38 PM

Group: Members
Posts: 2078
Member No.: 8400
Joined: 26-September 03

9.0 Side effects

9.1: Will the side effects go away when I am done with my cycle?

This depends on the side effect, but for the most part, yes. Loss of libido, testicular shrinkage, psychological effects, acne, and so on will go away once the cycle is over. If gyno develops, it may not go away. Hair that is lost may not grow back.

9.2: How do I avoid shutdown of natural testosterone production?

You don't. That is, unless you have access to HCG, which is a prescription drug that may be of benefit. Natural shutdown (and after a few weeks, testicular shrinkage) will occur on any hormone cycle.

9.3: How likely am I to get gyno?

Not likely at all. Some people are more prone to it than others. People fear this side effect much more than is warranted.

9.4: How can I prevent gyno?

If gyno is a concern, the most sensible option is to use prohormones that aren't estrogenic, like 1-test. If you are using a compound that aromatizes or is estrogenic, keep some formestane (such as E-Form) or nolvadex on-hand and begin using it if you think gyno is developing. For more information, see the anti-estrogen section of the FAQ.

9.5: How likely am I to lose my hair?

Hair loss is a concern if you use androgenic compounds on a regular basis for a long period of time. One short cycle will not cause it. Some people are prone to hair loss while others are not.

9.6: How can I prevent hair loss?

The best option is to use compounds that are not very androgenic, such as 19-nor and 1,4-andro. DHT precursors will be hardest on the hair. Taking finasteride (Proscar, Propecia) regularly will help prevent hair loss in general. Prescription topical anti-androgens will also help, as will Nizoral shampoo. Saw palmetto or other supplements are unlikely to make a difference.

9.7: How can I prevent/reduce the possibility of BPH?

Saw palmetto, finasteride, rye pollen extract.

9.8: How can I prevent acne?

Many people report good results from high doses of vitamin B5. Guggul extract may also help.

9.9: How can I prevent loss of libido?

Stack whatever you are using with 4-AD. Supplements such as yohimbine and arginine may also be of help.

10.0: Drug tests

10.1: Will prohormones show up on drug tests?

Prohormones will not show up on standard drug tests such as employment tests. Some prohormones will cause positives on tests for anabolic steroids, and many will cause positives on drug tests by athletic organizations that specifically ban prohormones. The ones that are most likely to lead to a positive test are precursors to illegal anabolic steroids such as 1,4-andro, 19-nordiol, 4-AD, DHT precursors, and the methylated versions of any of these. Methyl-1-testosterone, 1-AD, and 1-testosterone are unlikely to show up on a drug test.

10.2: How long do prohormones stay in the system?

It depends on the substance. Most prohormones, such as 1-AD/1-test and 4-AD, will probably only be detectable for 3-4 days. However, some, such as 19-nordiol, may be detectable for months. It is a good idea to cease use of any prohormone/steroid at least a month prior to the test to be on the safe side.

10.3: How can I pass a drug test?

Common methods include high water intake combined with diuretics, along with vitamin B complex and creatine to mask the unusually high water intake. The best option is to tell the organization doing the testing that you are taking a legal substance that may cause a false positive and specifically name the substance.

11.0: Home-brewing/powders

11.1: How do I use bulk prohormone powders?

They can be used in multiple ways.

A. Added into the Dermabolics Transport Matrix and used as a transdermal. This product can be found here: http://www.bulknutrition.com/?manufacturers_id=86

B. Mixed in with a beverage at the appropriate dose (to find the dose, just look at the dose for a similar product). The amount per quarter teaspoon can is usually indicated. A good scale is also a good investment. Scales can be found here: http://www.bulknutrition.com/?cPath=115

C. They can be put into capsules easily using a Cap-M-Quik and empty capsules. The Cap-M-Quik is easy to use, and with a little practice, 50 capsules can be made per 5-10 minutes. The 00 capsules are the best for the money from a pure volume standpoint, but if you want a lesser amount per capsule size 0 capsules can be used. The amount of hormone per capsule can be altered by mixing in a filler such as maltodextrin or dextrose prior to capping. Just take a known amount of prohormone and a known amount of filler, put them in a container and shake thoroughly, cap all of the powder, and then divide the original amount of hormone powder by the number of capsules you ended up with, and that is the amount per capsule. Using size 0 capsules and a 50/50 mix, you should end up with 200-400 mg of the active ingredient per cap. For a Cap-M-Quik and empty capsules: http://www.bulknutrition.com/?cPath=90

D. An oral solution can be made. The ideal solvent will depend on the powder you are using. Add a known amount of powder to a known amount of solvent, and then you will know the dosage per mL. You will also need an oral syringe for accurate dosing.

11.2: How much powder can I add to my Dermabolics product?

The Dermabolics Matrix can fit 7 grams of prohormone powder in it. Sometimes it can fit more. Here are the amounts of powders that can definitely fit in various products:

1: 4 grams
4Derm: 1 gram
E-Form: 4 grams
NorDerm: 1 gram
S1+: Already saturated

For more information on this see the Transdermal Prohormone FAQ (see section 3:1).

11.3: If I add in 5 grams of powder to the Transpor Matrix, what is the dose?

However much powder is in the bottle, divide that by 30, and that is the amount per 5 sprays.

11.4: Can I add yohimbine, caffeine, or other powders that are not hormones to the Transport Matrix?

No. It is designed for hormone powders only. It would probably not effectively deliver these compounds.

11.5: How much prohormone powder can I add to my Lipoderm? What about my Ab-Solved?

These products are meant for local delivery so adding prohormones is pretty pointless unless you are trying to delivery them locally. Lipoderm will not deliver hormone powders effectively, Lipoderm Ultra might but is already pretty saturated. Ab-Solved could probably fit 3-4 grams. If you are interested in targeted hormone delivery, I recommend checking out Sytenhance.

11.6: How do I make a cyclodextrin complex for sublingual/nasal delivery?

See the link near the bottom of this article: http://www.bulknutrition.com/?ingredients_id=37

12.0 Cycling

12.1: What is the ideal cycle length?

Opinions on this vary. Some say two weeks, some say four, some say twelve. Prohormone cycles are usually shorter than steroid cycles traditionally are. Cycles should be limited to 4-8 weeks unless you have HCG. 3-4 cycles of two weeks on, two weeks off followed by a more extended break of a few months have become popular. There is no ideal cycle length, so it is best for the individual to experiment for themselves to see which they prefer, starting with a two or four week cycle, then trying the other method the next time, and then going from there.

12.2: How much time off should I take after my cycle?

Including PCT, the time off should be at least as long as the cycle was, and preferably one and a half times as long as the cycle was.

12.3: How long into my cycle should I start seeing results?

It depends on the compound. It usually takes 2-3 weeks for results to become apparent. With some compounds, especially methyls, an immediate effect is noticeable. Be patient, and the results will come.

12.4: How much of my gains will I lose after my cycle?

Assuming you use proper PCT, you should retain most if not all of your gains. On some substances, you may have gained a lot of water weight on your cycle which you will lose, but you are not losing muscle. However, if you are well beyond your "genetic limit" because of prohormones or steroid use, it will become harder to keep the gains.

12.5: Do any prohormones require frontloading?

No, all prohormones, even 1,4-andro, have short half-lives. (Boldenone undecylenate has a long half-life, but 1,4-andro does not convert to this compound, it just converts to boldenone).

12.6: How long will my prohormone product last at the dosage I am taking?

Divide the number of capsules/sprays per bottle by the amount you are using daily. This will tell you how long each bottle will last.

13.0 Anti-estrogens

13.1: Should I use an anti-estrogen on cycle?

If you are concerned about too many estrogenic effects, simply don't use a prohormone that aromatizes. However, estrogen can have anabolic benefit, so anti-estrogens are best only used when needed during a cycle. Anti-estrogens should be kept on hand in case excessive estrogenic effects occur on a cycle of an aromatizing compound. Anti-estrogens are primarily used if the bloat is getting to be too much or signs of gyno (itchy/puffy nipples) are appearing.

13.2: What is the best anti-estrogen to use on cycle?

As far as legal supplements, formestane is the best choice. E-Form is a good transdermal formestane product. Nolva is a good option if it is available. As far as aromatase inhibitors, 6-OXO will also work, but formestane is the one recommended by most for on-cycle use. Formestane converts to 4-OHT, an anabolic substance with few side effects.

13.3: Should I take formestane and 6-OXO? What about formestane and nolva? What about....

Taking more than one anti-estrogen on cycle is generally redundant (although it is not going to be harmful); if you feel the need for additional effect, just raise the dosage of the one you are using.

13.4: Should I take tribulus, ZMA, etc. during my cycle?

No, there is no reason for these supplements. Tribulus and other herbal supplements are not likely to have a significant impact on hormone levels.

13.5: How much 6-OXO is in each capsule?

100 mg.

13.6: Are nolvadex and tamoxifen the same thing?

Yes.

13.7: How often do I need to take my anti-estrogen?

The effect of both aromatase inhibitors (6-OXO/formestane) and SERMs (clomid/nolva) are long-lived, so once-daily dosing is all that is necessary. The time of day is not a major issue, although some recommend before bed.

14.0 Post-cycle therapy

14.1: Where can I get some basic information on anti-estrogens and post-cycle therapy?

Start by reading this article: http://www.bulknutrition.com/?ingredients_id=54

14.2: I'm halfway through my cycle. Should I buy 6-OXO or nolva for post-cycle?

You should have everything you are going to need during and after your cycle BEFORE you start your cycle.

14.3: Assuming I only have access to legal products, what should I use for PCT?

6-OXO.

14.4: Should I use formestane post-cycle?

No. Formestane converts to an active steroid, and this could further shutdown.

14.5: One person says to use nolva post cycle, another says to use 6-OXO. I'm confused.

So is everyone else. The fact of the matter is that this is something that very knowledgeable people have diverging opinions on. I personally think that nolva is a better option. But both sides agree that either substance is of benefit. If in doubt, try one on one cycle, then the other on the next, and use whichever you felt worked better. If you can't decide, just alternate between the two indefinitely.

14.6: Is ZMA sufficient for post-cycle? Tribulus?

No, these compounds will do next to nothing. There is no evidence that zinc is a rate-limiting factor in post-cycle recovery, or that it signals increased testosterone production if there is no deficiency. The mechanism of action of tribulus is not well known, but one of the possibilities is that the active ingredient converts to DHEA; this would introduce an exogenous hormone into the body and further shutdown. The fact of the matter is, you must use either a strong aromatase inhibitor or a SERM post-cycle.

14.7: If I take an anti-estrogen during my cycle do I still need one post-cycle?

Yes, and at the same dose and length of time that you would normally use it.

14.8: How long should PCT last?

For shorter cycles (2-4 weeks), PCT should last as long as the cycle was. For longer cycles, one half to three fourths of the cycle length is acceptable, although some still recommend spending longer periods of time on PCT.

14.9: How long after my cycle should I start PCT?

The day after you take your last prohormone dose.

14.10: Can I start another cycle immediately after PCT?

You can, but it is generally recommended that you take a break before starting another cycle.

14.11: I don't think I am shut down. Should I still do PCT?

There is no good way to tell if you are shut down short of blood tests. If you have used any hormone, for any length of time, you should do PCT.

14.12: Should I taper off the prohormone at the end of the cycle to help with recovery?

This won't have much of an effect. Although small amounts of hormones will not shut down the HPTA as much, the exact point where this happens is not known, and it is likely to be with only a very small dose. It is best to run the same dose throughout your cycle, then start PCT immediately afterwards.

14.13: How should I train during PCT?

Reduced training volume is desirable. If the cycle was short, it may not be necessary.

14.14: How should I eat during PCT?

Maintenance calories or above if possible.

14.15: What dosage of nolva should I use?

Standard starting dosage is 40 mg, although some use higher doses (60-80 mg) for a few days to start with. Use 40 mg for the first half of PCT, and 20 mg for the second half.

David Tolson