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 I'm just wondering if anyone out there who has a little higher b.f. percentage has used LeptiGen. I know someone who is just getting into eating better and exercising on a regular basis. If Leptigen would be worthwhile now, I'd be interested in getting some now. It is not a cheap supplement, so if it would be better to wait later on to use it, I will wait. With a decent diet and consistant exercise, I just thought this might be a good supplement to speed up the results and make the dieting a little less painful. What does everyone think? Is this supplement as affective in larger people as it is for those getting in cotest shape?
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Youngbuck
Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 116
Member No.: 14987
Joined: 14-January 04
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Sorry I know I'm not a mod, but I thought this would be a nice quick answer, correct me if I'm wrong Whats your body fat %? Sub 15% than I would say yes Leptigen would be a good idea, but other than that it's a pretty expensive product and you could use the money for food and possibly some good supplements, ie. Clen, Lipoderm-Ultra, Absolved, Vasopro Ephedrine HCL. IMHO I would save it till I was a bit leaner to get full use out of the product, although you can start at 1 scoop a day if needed and work your way up as you get leaner. If your body fat above 20% your leptin should be high. Other than that you should keep a solid training/cardio/diet regiment. str8flexed (11:11:54 AM): you have wisdom beyond your years young one
Fletch1437 (9:37:06 PM): you've learned well young jedi
Fletch1437 (9:36:35 PM): you're sounding more like prolantum every day ;-)
Thanks to Ted Fletcher, Layne Norton, James Albury, Prolangtum, Gus, Zeppelin, Loki, Arbitro, David Tolson, and all the mods at AL for sharing their wisdom with me, and thanks to Mike for running the best Supplement store on the web(A+ Service cannot be beat)
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| QUOTE (Beast1226 @ Feb 9 2004, 12:03 PM) | | Whats your bodyfat? |
Bump. But, since I can kind of estimate where the person is going to fall once you give an answer, no, at this time, I think you would do best to save the Leptigen until this person is somewhat leaner & has been dieting for some time. The basic gist as that-- at higher bodyfat levels-- the obesity condition is-- if anything-- actually 'exacerbated' by leptin, because the body's signalling system (especially certain key receptors in the brain) becomes 'numbed' in effect to leptin. You eat; glucose goes through the HPB; insulin becomes elevated, etc.-- but the brain doesn't catch on that it's 'fed' and should stop eating. This is known as 'Leptin Resistance,' and Leptigen should never be used by such individuals, because how it works (via using end/byproducts & stimulating receptors to signal that the body is being fed & a starvation response is unnecessary) won't improve things any in this state. Now, I cannot say with certainty that the individual you speak of actually is leptin resistant, but the idea is that leptin is an anti-starvation hormone, and only functions as a hormonal/homeostatic regulator when the body distinctly feels there is a shortage that it needs to respond to. Someone who is just getting back into exercising & dieting is not sending any such sort of signal, which is why the Leptigen should be saved until said person's new routine 'stalls' and they find further weight loss is becoming difficult. Finally, Par & Avant, who I'm currently working for, will be releasing a specialized Leptigen specifically intended for people who are heavier &/or perhaps Leptin resistant to whatever degree, which-- when available-- would be a better choice for this person you speak of. Last I heard, this product is due to be available by early summer @ the latest, if not sooner. "So next time you [PLINK=4481]see[/PLINK] the homey and his rims spin/ just know my mind is working just like them/ the rims that is..." - S. Carter
www.mindandmuscle.net
www.avantlabs.com
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I was thinking along those lines as well, but I thought I'd ask anyway just to see if anyone with higher b.f. levels had experimented with it. I know diet and exercise is number one, but anything I can do to help them speed up their results would help them from becoming discouraged. Thanks for the input! P.S. - My bodyfat is usually around 10 percent or under but this isn't for me.  The person in question, I'm not sure, but they would be well above 15 percent.
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My opinion diverges here, although admittedly I am not a 'leptin guru'... here is an old post of mine from Avant, concerning refeeds but also applicable here:
| QUOTE | The presence of hormones such as leptin does not depend solely on bodyfat. Caloric intake will be a major determining factor. Even at high bodyfat, if you go into a caloric deficit leptin is going to go way down. Many other problems similar to those that lean people have will be encountered. This is why I would still recommend refeeds. For further information:
Clinical implications of leptin and its potential humoral regulators in long-term low-calorie diet therapy for obese humans.
"The ratio of the decrease in leptin levels to that of BMI during the first week was significantly greater than that during the following 3 weeks (39.5+/-2.7 vs 29.3+/-2.1%, P=0.017). The plasma insulin and T3 levels also fell substantially in the first week and continued to decrease during the entire course."
I strongly feel that refeeds should be used during any period of caloric deficit, whether the subject is obese or not. The differences in refeed length/size/frequency etc. depends more on the level of caloric deficit and individual variation. |
David Tolson
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| QUOTE (Ted Fletcher @ Feb 9 2004, 01:16 PM) | | QUOTE (Loki @ Feb 9 2004, 12:16 PM) | | ... will be releasing a specialized Leptigen specifically intended for people who are heavier &/or perhaps Leptin resistant to whatever degree, which-- when available-- would be a better choice for this person you speak of. Last I heard, this product is due to be available by early summer @ the latest, if not sooner. |
I'm interested to hear if this version of Leptigen will have a larger female target audience. - Fletch |
Bump on that. It's not a diss on the ladies either; Women simply carry more bodyfat than men.
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Youngbuck
Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 116
Member No.: 14987
Joined: 14-January 04
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I always get bashed, I'm trying to not be such a "noob" anymore and not answers question of that I know nothing about, especially being the first to answer
str8flexed (11:11:54 AM): you have wisdom beyond your years young one
Fletch1437 (9:37:06 PM): you've learned well young jedi
Fletch1437 (9:36:35 PM): you're sounding more like prolantum every day ;-)
Thanks to Ted Fletcher, Layne Norton, James Albury, Prolangtum, Gus, Zeppelin, Loki, Arbitro, David Tolson, and all the mods at AL for sharing their wisdom with me, and thanks to Mike for running the best Supplement store on the web(A+ Service cannot be beat)
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Youngbuck
Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 116
Member No.: 14987
Joined: 14-January 04
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| QUOTE (William Slade @ Feb 9 2004, 01:55 PM) | No one is going to bash you, as long as you are willing to admit when you are wrong ( not saying you are ) and being amiable about it ( which you are and have been ).  we're all here to learn. |
I have a rep that is hard to get rid of
str8flexed (11:11:54 AM): you have wisdom beyond your years young one
Fletch1437 (9:37:06 PM): you've learned well young jedi
Fletch1437 (9:36:35 PM): you're sounding more like prolantum every day ;-)
Thanks to Ted Fletcher, Layne Norton, James Albury, Prolangtum, Gus, Zeppelin, Loki, Arbitro, David Tolson, and all the mods at AL for sharing their wisdom with me, and thanks to Mike for running the best Supplement store on the web(A+ Service cannot be beat)
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| QUOTE (shpongled @ Feb 9 2004, 12:41 PM) | My opinion diverges here, although admittedly I am not a 'leptin guru'... here is an old post of mine from Avant, concerning refeeds but also applicable here:
| QUOTE | The presence of hormones such as leptin does not depend solely on bodyfat. Caloric intake will be a major determining factor. Even at high bodyfat, if you go into a caloric deficit leptin is going to go way down. Many other problems similar to those that lean people have will be encountered. This is why I would still recommend refeeds. For further information:
Clinical implications of leptin and its potential humoral regulators in long-term low-calorie diet therapy for obese humans.
"The ratio of the decrease in leptin levels to that of BMI during the first week was significantly greater than that during the following 3 weeks (39.5+/-2.7 vs 29.3+/-2.1%, P=0.017). The plasma insulin and T3 levels also fell substantially in the first week and continued to decrease during the entire course."
I strongly feel that refeeds should be used during any period of caloric deficit, whether the subject is obese or not. The differences in refeed length/size/frequency etc. depends more on the level of caloric deficit and individual variation. |
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Yes David, but generally, in the obese you WANT a drop in leptin levels, because it negates the resistance and actually causes several of the brain's leptin receptors to upregulate in response to the decreased glucose flow through the adipocytes/HPB.
Initially, this will only have positive effects on CRH/NPY (PYY) regulation, because leptin sensitivity will easily compensate for the initial decline, assuming the person is fairly heavy, doesn't just start blatantly starving themselves, and has yet to seriously diet (which is why you'll notice that for heavier dieters, once they get their shit together, fat loss proceeds quite quickly even while--at times-- LBM is gained/preserved indisputably).
I really don't want to come off pretentious in regards to leptin, but it really is one of the few subjects I actually feel I have a decent understanding of, and one of the things that's clear from the literature is that-- in obese human subjects who conform to the conditions that I've described above-- leptin injections have proved to be almost worthless; they only start working after subjects have dieted for extended periods of time or in the already extremely lean.
That right there is very critical to understanding the 'ceiling in relation to the floor' when it comes to serum leptin concentrations and how they respond to changes in energy balance...
"So next time you [PLINK=4481]see[/PLINK] the homey and his rims spin/ just know my mind is working just like them/ the rims that is..." - S. Carter
www.mindandmuscle.net
www.avantlabs.com
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| QUOTE (weeviekins2000 @ Feb 14 2004, 02:22 PM) | | So when does this new Leptigen come out?. I am 15% BF right now. I am on a 16 week cutting cycle, ending May 10th. I will only increase calories slightly though. I want to get down to 10%. If it comes out by May maybe I will get it and stay in a calorie deficit until I use it up. If not, oh well... |
Unless we hear something earlier, there will be an Avant Labs chat on Tuesday, Feb. 16, at 9:00 PM eastern, and I'm sure Par will discuss the new stuff they have coming out, including Ghetto Leptigen
"I don't like people who take drugs...Customs men, for example." - Mitch Miller
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LeptiGen for Larger People
