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> Clean Bulking 101 *Pinned by request for a while*, This is what everyone has been asking 4
Posted: Sep 30 2004, 10:09 PM
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Clean Bulking 101
By Dave876




Since I have had so many requests in the last few weeks to help people out with a "clean bulking diet" I figured I would write alittle something up so this could be easily understood, and so the user can make his own diet up using my protocols. Fist let me state that I follow John Berardi’s methods of Nutrient timing so the way it works is this:

A.) meals will consist of Protein/Carbs(P+C), or Protein/Fats(P+F). Therefor while eating a P+C meal you will try to eat no more then 10-15g of fat at that time. The same will go while eating a P+F(ie: no more then 10-15g of Carbs)
B.) Since this is a "clean" bulk ALL sources of food should be from, you guessed it clean food( I will provide a list later)
C.) You should aim for 7-8 meals/day.. Not only will this supply a steady level of quality food, but eating often will keep metabolism, and fat burning trucking all day.
D.) The three most important meals of the day are Breakfast, 1st Post weight training, and 2nd post weight training. These meals should NOT be neglected in anyway to be successful.

Of course while dieting in ANY sense it is a good idea to monitor your progress, and adjust calories as needed( remember we are all different so what I am listing are in fact general guidelines ). Be sure to monitor your progress on the scale, in the mirror, and with body fat tests if you have exposure to them. While either gaining or losing weight you should shoot for no more then 2 lbs. Gain or loss per week. If you are bulking and gaining more then that chances are you are gaining fat and you need to look at your diet to make adjustments. What I suggest for "baseline" numbers are these: (I will use a 160lb example)

Protein- 1.25- 1.5gram X 1 Lb. body weight = 200-240g/day
Fat- .6-.75gram X body weight = 96- 120g/day
Carb- 1.5-1.75gram X body weight = 240-280g/day

If you feel that you are gaining fat then start cutting carbs, and fats down, but never protein! I suggest for a leaner person(10%BF or lower) to start at the higher number X body weight, and work your way up or down as needed, as for a "not so lean" person start on the lower end, and adjust as needed.

A typical weight training day should look like, and I will use a 5 p.m. workout time as an example:
M1- P+C
M2- P+C
M3- P+F
M4-(pre workout) P+ light amount of carbs( ex. Smaller version of Post workout shake)
Train
M5 P+C Preferably bring this in a shaker bottle to the gym and drink a.s.a.p.
M6 -P+C approx. 1-1.5 hours later
M7 P+F
M8 P+F pre bed meal preferably slower acting protein sources ex: casein protein powder, or cottage cheese + a small amount of fat

The post workout shake should consist of:
25-40g of Whey protein powder
50-75g Dextrose powder(powder version of Gatorade will work)
5-10g of glutamine powder ( for recovery)
?g of Creatine if you are using it.

Protein sources:

Chicken breast(grilled with seasoning)
Lean Red meats(count as a P+F meal)
Lean fishes(Tuna most commonly)
Fatty fishes(salmon P+F meal)
Whole eggs(P+F meals)
Egg Whites(P+C meals)
Turkey
Low fat cottage cheese(1-2%)
Protein powder
Jerky

Carb sources:

Oatmeal(not instant)
Yams
Sweet potatoes
Brown rice
Whole grain bread/wraps
Steamed/grilled vegetables
"Healthy" Fibrous cereals ( Fiber One, granola(low sugar) Smart Start, Uncle Sams)

Fat sources:

Nuts( preferably Raw almonds, walnuts, cashews etc…)
Flax seeds/ Flax seed oil
Fish oil caps
Natural peanut butter(Don’t make it a staple fat though)
Olive Oil
Fats from animals(again not as a staple)

Tips:
-When taking in carbs try to take in a bulk of them during meals 1,PWO,and the meal after so basically make the carbs in M2 your smallest P+C meal.
-Pre-bed meal should be slow digesting protein like casein protein powder, or get used to eating 1-2% cottage cheese To make this alitte easier if you don’t like cottage cheese(trust me I used to HATE it) What I do is mix ½ Cup of cottage cheese with ½ scoop of Chocolate protein powder, and pretend it is pudding!
-Make sure you eat every 2-3 hours.
-Take your vitamins!
-Limit alcohol as it reduces Testosterone levels, and also halts the fat burning progress until ALL alcohol is burned.
-Have a cheat meal or two per week. I like to make mine over the weekend. While I actually even cheat "clean" you DO NOT have to as well. When I say that I cheat clean I mean that I will just eat my normal foods except in a larger amount, or I will go out to a restaurant and get say Chicken, Rice, and beans. I am also human, and will splurge once in a while on something that has been tempting me like PIZZA!!
-Try to take in a salad or some steamed vegetables with your P+F meals, the vitamins, and fiber are very important.
-Non- weight training days I feel that you should eat 2 P+C meals(3 if leaner) and they should be the earliest meals of the day. All of your other meals should be P+F.
I recommend either signing up at Fitday.com , or picking up a Calorie guide book so you know how many grams you are getting from particular foods.
-Keep a food log if possible for atleast a few weeks to get a feel of how close you are hitting your numbers, and to also see what is, or isn’t working for you.
If there are anymore questions feel free to ask, I hope this will allow you to make your own menu, and help you to understand when to time your meals.

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Posted: Oct 1 2004, 12:38 AM
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Ryan
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Great Post, good information too.

I'd also like to add to the list, these are things I have found to work for me and a number of athletes (bodybuilders namely).

Meats:
-Lean Beef (90% or leaner, other lean cuts include: Beef tenderloin, Filet Mignon, Sirloin, Flank Steak, Round Steak, Top Round)
-Swanson's Canned Chicken Breasts
-Canadian Bacon
-Pork Tenderloin
-Ostrich
-Deer
-Ground Turkey Breats (95% or leaner)

Fish:
Tuna, Cod, Flounder, Halibut, Haddock, Orange Roughy, Salmon (canned in water or fresh, but limit to twice weekly), Red Snapper, Perch, Pollock, Scallops,
Shrimp, Whitefish and Swordfish

Starchy Carbs:
Beans (white, pinto, kidney or black),
Lima Beans, Corn, Peas, Cream of Rice, Rice Cakes (plain or salted only), Winter Squash

*note that corn and peas are veggies, but they are going to be utilized as a starch rather than a fibrous carbohydrate*

Fibrous Carbs-Great to add to any meal, veggies are extremely important!
Asparagus, Broccoli, Brussels Sprouts, Cabbage, Carrots, Cauliflower,
Celery, Cucumbers, Green Beans, Kale, Lettuce(all varieties), Mushrooms, Radishes, Spinach, Squash (summer varieties only), Tomato, Water Chestnuts, Zucchini

Fats:
Natty peanut butter-stay away from this as much as possible if you want a LEAN gain; ectomorphs, you probably don't need to worry about his as much
Canola Oil
Sesame Oil
Real Butter
Heavy Cream
Safflower Oil
MRP's w/ Lipid Blends

Notes of Interest:
you can wash your cottage cheese to get most of the lactose (milk sugar) off
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Posted: Oct 1 2004, 08:26 AM
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Thanks for the great addition to the thread Ryan!

user posted image

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[color=red][color=red]The things you own,end up owning you...Tyler Durden,Fight Club

Those are my Abs in my avatar please respect! haha

Valiums and [PLINK=2125]speed[/PLINK] but we don't do weed
Steroids and alcohol, still a fuckin athlete
Cock strong with my jock strap on with the time clock
Bout to run the rock home
Yo' ace boom coon in the hole in the clutch
In the pocket on the field, without gettin touched!!!!

-mystikal
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Posted: Oct 1 2004, 10:17 AM
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q.

NOBama 2008!!!

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Posted: Oct 1 2004, 01:22 PM
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Thanks guys.

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Disclaimer: I am not real. I am a player on a virtual world rotating through cyberspace. Any information I give is based off of science fiction and not meant to be taken literally. I do not know anyone that uses, condones the use, or knows where to get anything against the laws of our governments.

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Posted: Oct 1 2004, 02:06 PM
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Gee...I don't have a pinned thread.... sad.gif


Stupid Dave with his hot ass girl and stupid pinned threads.... laugh.gif

Really though, nice work guys.

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Posted: Oct 1 2004, 03:31 PM
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QUOTE (Skate @ Oct 1 2004, 02:06 PM)
Gee...I don't have a pinned thread.... sad.gif


Stupid Dave with his hot ass girl and stupid pinned threads.... laugh.gif

Really though, nice work guys.

laugh.gif laugh.gif

user posted image

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[color=red][color=red]The things you own,end up owning you...Tyler Durden,Fight Club

Those are my Abs in my avatar please respect! haha

Valiums and [PLINK=2125]speed[/PLINK] but we don't do weed
Steroids and alcohol, still a fuckin athlete
Cock strong with my jock strap on with the time clock
Bout to run the rock home
Yo' ace boom coon in the hole in the clutch
In the pocket on the field, without gettin touched!!!!

-mystikal
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Posted: Oct 1 2004, 06:05 PM
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DONT FUCK WITH MY NUTS!
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Yet another very well put together sitcky with a lot of great information, only one question though.
How will we get people to read it first adn then ask questions?? huh.gif
Hopefully that is only in the ph section.
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Posted: Oct 1 2004, 06:18 PM
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Mr. Happy
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Too bad we can't make certain threads non repliable.....

Ya oughta thank Dave ......
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Posted: Oct 1 2004, 06:25 PM
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Thank you dave rolleyes.gif
Actually this will probably save a lot of us a lot of typing!
I still think dave needs to change his name to
Dave876
Forum Diet consultant

Its fitting since you have helped so many people get their stuff straight (including me)
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Posted: Oct 2 2004, 01:12 PM
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Hey like I say,I like to help people out when it comes to diet since it is so important in reaching our goals....

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[color=red][color=red]The things you own,end up owning you...Tyler Durden,Fight Club

Those are my Abs in my avatar please respect! haha

Valiums and [PLINK=2125]speed[/PLINK] but we don't do weed
Steroids and alcohol, still a fuckin athlete
Cock strong with my jock strap on with the time clock
Bout to run the rock home
Yo' ace boom coon in the hole in the clutch
In the pocket on the field, without gettin touched!!!!

-mystikal
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Posted: Oct 19 2004, 06:11 PM
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Dave,
Thanks for all of the great information on diet. I appreciate the time and effort that you put into it. I am going to include many of these principles into my diet and begin to keep strict track of my intake. I am trying to optimize my gains from my diet and training, before I resort to taking my supplementation to the next level. I am a hardgainer, but I can see that my diet program could still be lacking in some areas—and discipline. Thanks again for great info! ohmy.gif
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Posted: Oct 22 2004, 02:10 PM
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Hey thanks 1st timer!

Id you're a hardgainer then use the higher end of the numbers,and then play with it from there,this is what I do

user posted image

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[color=red][color=red]The things you own,end up owning you...Tyler Durden,Fight Club

Those are my Abs in my avatar please respect! haha

Valiums and [PLINK=2125]speed[/PLINK] but we don't do weed
Steroids and alcohol, still a fuckin athlete
Cock strong with my jock strap on with the time clock
Bout to run the rock home
Yo' ace boom coon in the hole in the clutch
In the pocket on the field, without gettin touched!!!!

-mystikal
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Posted: Oct 22 2004, 05:42 PM
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I was just driving home from the gym about 20 minutes ago, and was thinking how i need to do a bulking phase for my training. Ive never done one, and the first thing that came to mind was.. "Damn i should just PM Dave and ask him to give me some tips on diet and all.." But hey, what doyou know, he already put up the info! Thanks brotha, peace.

"Have patience with all things, but chiefly have patience with yourself. Do not lose courage in considering your own imperfections, but instantly set about remedying them - every day begin the task anew." - Saint Francis De Sales
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Posted: Oct 22 2004, 06:20 PM
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QUOTE (SpiritWalker @ Oct 22 2004, 05:42 PM)
I was just driving home from the gym about 20 minutes ago, and was thinking how i need to do a bulking phase for my training. Ive never done one, and the first thing that came to mind was.. "Damn i should just PM Dave and ask him to give me some tips on diet and all.." But hey, what doyou know, he already put up the info! Thanks brotha, peace.

If questions on specifics just ask bro....Glad to be of help

user posted image

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[color=red][color=red]The things you own,end up owning you...Tyler Durden,Fight Club

Those are my Abs in my avatar please respect! haha

Valiums and [PLINK=2125]speed[/PLINK] but we don't do weed
Steroids and alcohol, still a fuckin athlete
Cock strong with my jock strap on with the time clock
Bout to run the rock home
Yo' ace boom coon in the hole in the clutch
In the pocket on the field, without gettin touched!!!!

-mystikal
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Posted: Oct 28 2004, 06:45 PM
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hey dave i just wanted to pass on a compliment. i showed Gina (she is in charge of all the personal trainers at my gym) a copy of your bulking 101 diet and she was extremely impressed. i asked her if she thought that it would be good for me and she said that basically it is the perfect diet for gainingmuscle. so i just wanted to pass on the compliment.

also, i showed her not because i didnt trust you but because you cant see what my body type is so i thought she could tell me if i needed to cut or bulk.

oh and just one more thing. in the version of the diet that you posted earlier you have one scoop of whey and 24 almonds before the workout. if i workout later in the day should i move the smaller meal before the workout or does it matter. i will keep the two meals after the workout to after the workout but i didnt know if switching up the order messed up anything. thanks. biggrin.gif

JUST CALL ME MR. SMOOTH[/FONT]
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Posted: Nov 1 2004, 09:14 PM
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I know you posted this diet a while ago but I just found time to sit down and read it now. Very informative thanx! This weekend I think I'm gona write out all the foods Im going to go get at the store and hopefully this diet will work for me seeing as I commute to school and am usually there on average 12 hours a day.
Mike C

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Posted: Nov 1 2004, 10:08 PM
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Surfer,and Music man thanks for the compliments,and feel free to PM any questions you might have...Surfer Im not quite sure I understand your question,which smaller meal are you refering to? I workout later in the day as well and 1 scoop of powder+almonds is usually what I eat pre-workout

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[color=red][color=red]The things you own,end up owning you...Tyler Durden,Fight Club

Those are my Abs in my avatar please respect! haha

Valiums and [PLINK=2125]speed[/PLINK] but we don't do weed
Steroids and alcohol, still a fuckin athlete
Cock strong with my jock strap on with the time clock
Bout to run the rock home
Yo' ace boom coon in the hole in the clutch
In the pocket on the field, without gettin touched!!!!

-mystikal
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Posted: Nov 5 2004, 05:32 PM
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Hey all. Have any of you guys read the article "glucose economy"? Im trying to decide between that diet and this one. This diet seems a little high in fat. The other one has none and I know fat is essential. If any of you guys use either of these id greatly appreciate any info(even if you dont use em). Thanks!!
unsure.gif Also when you say P+C do you mean starchy carbs or any kind of carbs except sugars.
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Posted: Nov 5 2004, 05:49 PM
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Geez Dave this is very helpful. I have already been watching my diet very closely and eating about every 2 hours when i am not lifting, at school or at work. I was told that i should take my reasonable "desired weight" X 1.5 = protien intake...
and "desired weight" X 2.5 = carb intake

This ends up being like almost 500g of carbs and 300g of protien. I think that is too much and i like your approach. I also likesd the list of foods that are recommended and the fat intake. You are very informative and it halps rookies like me tremendously. "Skate" referred me to your post about bulking.
What are your views on what kind of supplements a 17 year old should take?

High maintenence