I got the SAN A100 product. The consensus on dosages for 4-AD stacked w/ M1T (I'm using 30mg/day of M1T)seem to be roughly 600mg-800mg spread out over the day. However, I've read that the ethyl carbonate makes it more orally bioavailable and therefore the dosage does not need to be as high. True or not?

SAN reccomends 200mg/day taken in 2 doses, not to exceed 400mg/day. Bottom line...does the EC property really have any impact or is it marketing?

If the EC is marketing, then do you think 600mg to 800mg is about right for someone in the 215lb range with significant lifting experience but only some PH experience?

If EC does allow for lower dosages, then is the 200mg to 400mg about right?

Lastly, I've seen that the SAN A100 is "discontinued" on several of the websites. Is there a story behind it being discontinued that I should worry about?

I think it's probably a little of both. An ethyl-carbonate ester will improve oral bioavailability, but I'm kind of skeptical that it's quite as good as SAN claims.

Nonetheless, it's their product, so I might start out with their recommended dose, and then increase as necessary. It's going to be difficult to really notice an 'anabolic effect' from it because of the confounding 17aa-1-Test. I think 500mg is probably a good call for the 4AD though in my opinion.

What I want to know is-- 30mg of Methyl-1-Test??? Homey...WHY!?!? Do you consider yourself quite close to your genetic limit?? And how long do you plan on running the cycle?? Have you experimented with 20mg yet? I only ask because 20mg is a very potent dose in of itself (even for someone your size), and 30mg seems to be the dosage where people start experiencing sides in the "I can't take this" range, and I'm talking veteran steroid users, not just newbies.

I personally would recommend 500mg/ED of 4AD with 20mg of 17aa-1-Test.

And as for SAN discontinuing their product, I don't really know any background on that situation, so I can't really comment in that regard...

Thank you Loki. That's very helpful.

I'm only using the 4AD to offset a couple of the M1T sides, specifically, loss of appetite, lethargy, & low libido. Having said that, none of these sides is anywhere close to the "I can't take this" range. Appetite loss has been only slight, but since I'm trying to add mass a healthy appetite is important. The lethargy has also been only slight...definitely not anything unmanagable or of any significant impact to daily life. The low libido has been more significant, but since my wife of almost 14yrs chases 3 kids around all day that hasn't been much of an issue in the short term either. What are the "I can't take this" sides you spoke of?

I think I'll take your advice and keep the 4AD at about 500mg for this cycle.

Why 30mg of M1T?

1) I'm not even close to genetic potential, but have, over the years (I'm 37yrs old), had a fair amount of lifting experience in an on and off way. I'm getting back into lifting now in a serious way, although with no intention of any kind of competitive bodybuilding. Just looking to bulk, bulk, bulk but with mostly only lean mass, mass, mass. Primarily, because I've just always enjoyed bodybuilding because of the definitive/immediate feedback. Simply just enjoy the process and results of getting big. I'm about 213-215lbs right now, by no means lean, but not at all fat either.

2) 30mg came from the fact that a lot of what I was reading indicated that for someone my size about 20mg was in the right range, but I have always taken advice about supplements (and everything else) and cranked it up just a bit...that's just me.

3) I did roll back to 20mg for a couple of days and I immediately noticed my muscles getting less dense, hard, full. Pumps were not near as good either. Subsequently bumped back up to 30mg and immediately regained all the pumps and muscle density.

4) I won't be a long term prohormone user (i.e. year after year).

Would love to exchange more with you on the subject. I'd welcome more feedback from you. I'll try to post any sides of note as I progress thru the cycle.

Aside from the really bad lethargy (which the 4AD can usually alleviate-- when I test-ran 17aa-1-Test when it first came out, I just used it straight, and found I had to start using E/C/ALCAR/theobromine otherwise I'd settle into "Jabba-the-Hut"-mode and just want to lay on the couch all day...), people doing 30mg+ generally start getting severe cramping in their lower back (I felt it too slightly after about 3 weeks on 20mg/ED-- I have some hypotheses, but I'm not really sure exactly what causes it) after two weeks on Methyl-1-Test. In some cases, it can make it tremendously difficult to perform quite a few lifts, and is also just really bothersome/painful when moving around in daily activity. You definitely don't feel it right away, but after about two weeks, it really 'asserts itself' pretty noticeably.

I can't tell precisely if it's spinal or muscular (or both) in nature, but it seems to indicate that-- at the very least-- higher doses of Methyl-1-Test seem to induce pretty strong mineral & or electrolyte deffeciencies, possibly in the bone itself in the case of the former (in terms of what it can & can't absorb). I tried my 'anti-cramping' formulation of Taurine, Mg Citrate, & Potassium Gluc., which helped a little, but even that didn't make it fully go away, which is kind of worrisome, because that tends to kick the crap out of even Clen cramps...

Nonetheless, I definitely consider it something to watch for...

Absolutely. I will be watching for any low back pain. Today is the 11th day on my M1T cycle and no signs of that yet, but I'll definitely be watching.

You mentioned Theobromine so I did a little reading on it, and based on your analysis, I may have an explanation as to why I'm not, and may not, experience that particular side and why some of the others (lethargy) are less noticeable. Theobromine, as I understand it, is basically a stimulant or at least of the stimulant family. I take two prescription medications, Effexor and Ritalin LA. Obviously, the Ritalin is a stimulant and I believe Effexor, although not categorized as an actual stimulant, is related in some way to the stimulant family. If Theobromine works as you indicate, then it's not a big leap to think these prescriptions may be having a similar effect.

Let me know what you think. To give you a better idea of my profile I've outlined some details below. I've enjoyed and learned from our exchange today. Thanks.

Age: 37
Hght: 5' 9"
Wght: 213 lbs
BF%: Don't know for sure, but clearly not thin and I wouldn't say fat at all.
Workouts: M (Chest), T (Back) W (Shoulders) Th (Arms) F (Legs) Sat-Sun (off) Strength today (just getting back into it but to give an idea of where I am): Bench Press 225x5, Seated Military 135x3 or 4, Barbell Rows 155-165x8, Squats 0x0 (you'll see why below)

Other Supps: Creatine w/ AKG (4g pre and post workout), Glutamine 25g daily (spread out), Saw Palmetto, Flaxseed Oil, Digestive Enzyme, Gluc/Chond, Trace Minerals, Multi, extra C, Cod Liver Oil, CoQ10 100mg/day (BP checked by doctor last week at 120/80 so looking good there)

PCT ready to go: Novedex (4-Hydroxyandrostenedione) from Gaspari Nutrition, Milk Thistle for liver, Lecithin granules.

Protien: Minimum 250g/day but much closer to 300g.
Carbs (clean mostly): Minimum 300g/day but probably closer to 400g
Water: Tons

Other Important Facts: Happily married, 3 kids, shaved head (so hair loss is a non issue). Goal is not bodybuilding in the traditional sense. Goal is more of a Stone Cold Steve Austin look...is it messed up that at 37 w/ all the great other stuff in my life I should want to look like Stone Cold or that I even know who Stone Cold is? Basically, get big, real big, real strong. My other hobby is bull riding which I am on hiatus from until June/July due to ACL reconstruction surgery in Jan. that resulted from a bull stomping my knee back in Nov of last year.

Last 2 Important Facts:
1) I don't and won't take any prescription medication that was not prescribed by one of my doctors. I say this because there is a school that insists on Nolva for PCT. Just not going to go the prescrip direction for anything.

2) I do not drink alchohol (none) and absolutely do not use any type of drugs

Although Im not a fan of 6 OXO over nolvadex for PCT, I am definitely not a fan of 4-hyroxyandrostendione for PCT.

Effexor is an SSRI, and has no stimulant affects, it is the ritalin which is offsetting and lethargy from M 1T.

Effexor is an SNRI - not sure about it's behavioral effects, but it may be more stimulating than an SSRI.

I was wondering too if you have gone to the doctor to get your liver values checked. Just because you feel fine doesn't mean your insides are fine. Be careful!.

Their statements are pretty much correct. Formestane is an aromatase inhibitor and as such decreases estrogen and increases testosterone. However the goal with PCT is restoration of natural testosterone production. Another property of formestane is that it converts to 4-OHT, in other words another exogenous steroid, which is contrary to the goal of PCT. The conversion rate is low, and formestane is probably better than nothing. But 6-OXO is far superior because it does not have this effect.

According to Derek(Syntrax) the conversion to 4-OHT is miniscule, also taking into account the low bioavailibility of formenstane that the effects are negligible. Formenstane is a much better anti-E than 6-OXO at much lower dosages. I used it PCT with Clomid(5weeks of Clomid, first 2 weeks Aromazap) and had no problems. Out of a total of 27lbs of weight gain, I only lost 9lbs PCT, which was all in the first week, as I shred water. I only offer this as my experience, nothing else.