Ok, well I guess 6 OXO is the one to use. I just read that post about how anti-estogrens are not great to use after a cycle. What do you think about the Pact product from Black Star Labs?. I don't really want to use anything thats not over-the-counter as I do not want to take the risk of incarciration(sp.). I actually purchased the book Steroids 101 a few months back. I read it a returned it, it scared the crap out of me. Especially the part about getting caught and the penalties...After some research on the internet though, I have read a lot about the author and he is a very dis-repected in the industry. Well thats what I get from what I read on the web...I don't have the chemical background a lot of you guys have on here...So excuse me if some things I post seem blantently retarded!...I am getting Anabolics 2004 soon at the suggestion of Lokki. I should learn a lot, it sounds like a good book.

PaCT should work fine for PCT.

And to note, LR did not get busted for selling Nolva, clomid, etc, the main reason they got busted was for selling a GHB analouge

DONT DO IT

I DECIDED THAT FOOD AND WATER AND SLEEP AND HARD TRAINING IS BETTER

Youll gain about 10 pounds or so depending on your dose but i dont think it will be too obvious since youll lose BF and youll look exact same only with muscle instead of fat

NOPE

Also, use the E/C stack only on diet days, do not use it Friday evening or on Saturday.

Other supplements that will likely help you would be Creatine during your Carb-Load period (think 10g on Friday evening/20g on Saturday-- in split doses), Leptigen on Low-Cal days, & Cytomel/nicotine if you are willing to use them.

Hey guys don't be hating on me for not understanding everything I've read so far and throwing another product in the mix here. I have a bottle of this stuff that I haven't used yet and was curious to know if this is acceptable for after a M1T cycle. Its from Gasparinutrion.com . It's called CLOMIX here are the ingredients and the FAQs on the product. Please advise openly but HONESTLY. I know peeps here have interests in 6-OXO for example but like I said,, this is already purchased before ever finding this site so be nice please. Honest knowledgable feedback requested. Thank you in advance.


CLOMEX

Supplement Facts
Dosing: 1 Capsule
Servings Per Container: 60

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amount Per Serving
% Daily Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tribulus Terrestris Extract 500 mg -
Vitex agnus-castus 100 mg -
Calicum D-Glucarate 100 mg -
Zinc (as monomethionine and aspartate) 10 mg 66.6%
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Other Ingredients
Rice Powder.


Testosterone Booster / Estrogen Inhibitor
FAQs
What is Clomex?

Clomex, by Gaspari Nutrition, is the latest innovation destined to take the supplement market by storm. Unlike various competing products, Clomex stimulates the body's natural testosterone production. This is extremely important because it minimizes side effects and eliminates the need to cycle.

How does it work?

Clomex combines 3 powerful and effective testosterone boosters with a patented anti-estrogen compound. In fact, similar to its pharmaceutical cousin, Clomex effectively fools the bodies natural feedback loop. Utilizing this remarkable technology, Clomex is the perfect recovery agent for coming off synthetic androgens/pro-steroids. Therefore, whether you are gaining, dieting, or "recovering" natural testosterone, Clomex is clearly the ultimate anabolic assistant.

What's in it?

Clomex contains a powerful Tribulus terrestris extract which was specifically standardized to contain unprecedented amounts of protodioscin (the active ingredient in tribulus). This chemical has been shown in clinical studies to dramatically increase testosterone, libido, and fertility in human and animal subjects. Clomex also contains Vitex agnus castus - a well-documented herb that raises - lutenizing hormone and thus, testosterone. The amazing effects of Vitex don't stop there! Vitex also has been shown to lower the fat storing, libido killing hormone prolactin. Finally, Calcium D-Glucarate - a powerful patented estrogen eliminator - and zinc are included to further maximize testosterone and minimize estrogenic side effects

What does Clomex do?

In summary Clomex's Proprietary Formula:

- Radically stimulates natural testosterone production.
- Minimizes estrogenic side effects and HPTA feed back.
- Sky-rockets libido.
- Dramatically enhances sexual performance.
- Stimulates muscle growth via increased protein synthesis.
- Allows the athlete to stay lean and hard year around.

***********************
ONE other product curious about from Gasparis but I don't have it.

NOVEDEX
Stop Estrogen in its Tracks!

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Capsule
Servings per Container: 60

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amount Per Serving
% DV*

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4-Hydroxyandrostenedione
(Formestane) 50 mg
Other Ingredients: Micro crystalline cellulose.

FAQs
What is Novedex™?

High estrogen can cause side effects like excessive water and sodium retention, resulting in a bloated, puffy, and a smooth appearance.

Another bad side effect from high estrogen levels is gynecomastia (bitch tits). This is the growth of breast tissue in men. This can make a guy have cone shaped breasts on top of a rock hard chest. This can certainly ruin all that hard work in the gym making a guy cover up in baggy shirts.

Estrogen can also cause a shutdown of testosterone production resulting in muscle loss, strength loss, as well as fat gains.

All of these side effects from estrogen can result from taking testosterone as well as Prohormones.

Novedex™ from Gaspari Nutrition is the most powerful legal aromatase inhibitor on the market!

What are the advantages of Novedex™?

Novedex™ is naturally occurring which irreversibly binds to the aromatase enzyme and permanently deactivates it. The result is a substantial reduction in the production of estrogen in the body with an increase in testosterone.

Novedex™ main ingredient decreases water retention and bloating to give that lean rock hard look while increasing the natural production of testosterone levels. Novedex™ works so well that you can take it by itself to make gains in muscle size and strength as well as keeping you hard or use it on a cycle of any Prohormone, prosteroids or testosterones to prevent the bad effects from Estrogen.
Although Novedex™ is completely legal for now, things may change and Novedex™ may be taken off the market. So take advantage and don't miss out!

In summary Novedex™:

Powerful aromatase inhibitor
Reduces Estrogen
Helps keep the Body lean and rock hard
Naturally helps increase testosterone
Can be used on cycles of Prohormones or any testosterones
Can be used post cycle for gains in muscle and strength.

Well, I just read the info on the site about the Pact product and it states that it is a pro-hormone. So I guess I am somewhat confused. Well, I just looked up androgen in the dictionary..."Androgen n. substance that reinforces masculine characteristics.". Now wouldn't Pact be considered "a substance that reinforces masuline characteristics"?...I realize that there can be pro-hormones that are not androgenic, but wouldn't the ingredients in Pact be considered androgenic?.

what is so "prohormone" about 6-oxo and 7-oxo dhea? It is listed as an anti-e/post cycle substance.

Yeah, neither of those are prohormones. That product should not cause shutdown, rather the reverse.

Ok, my mistake I thought it did say something about it being a pro-hormone on the site with the info about it. Sorry for the cofusion. So what do you guys think is a better post cycle product between PaCt and 6OXO by ergopharm(sp.)?

I think the best bet for OTC PCT is going to be 6-OXO powder thrown in to some trasnport matirx PH gel.

Whats the longest i can cycle m1t with the 4-ad? Also for PCT how many milligrams of ALA and MILK THISTLE, should you take. And for the 6-oxo do i just follow the directions on the bottle or should i take more? and how long should i take the PCT'S?