Hi all,

I am writing this not as a scaremonger, or in support of some anti-PH / steroid body, i am simply writing this to tell you what happened when i tried my first PH stack cycle so that all of the peeps out there considering using PH for the 1st time that read this will know not to go rushing in to using these substances without some thought for possible consequences.

3 weeks ago i started using Animal Stak - a PH stack regarded by many as a pretty lame, weak mix of PH's that for many on the forums here have said it did nothing for them. I have been training for about two years now and plateaux'd in the last few months. I was 12 and a half stone (yes, im a Brit so im going to do it in stones and pounds) before i took this stuff, with a not particulalry stressful lifestyle. I have taken lots of other supplements in the past, including 95% of the stuff in Animal Stak minus the PH's, without any problems. I have no family history of hypertension, psychological problems, or short temper.

Everything seemed fine after week 1, although i started getting a bit cranky. Put on 1 lb in weight.

Week 2, started getting major cranky and unsociable cos everyone was unintentionally pissing me off. Felt v. stressed, starting getting pains in my neck and headaches. Also slight chest pain. However, it was on the right hand side of my chest - the wrong side for referred heart pain - so i didnt freak too much. Lost 1/2 a stone in weight ?!?

Week 3. Save the best for last: - went from being stressed to constant high RHR with heart palpatations and hypertension (i have a BP monitor at home for self testing). Shar chest and neck pains. Occasional migraine. Uncontollable moods swings from almost suicidal depression to getting so aggressive every one and everything turned me bezerk. Started noticing small amounts of hair loss, started occasionally getting blurred vision and numbness in limbs during extreme rage, almost to the point of blacking out. Lost almost another 1/2 stone in weight!! I figure at this point weight loss must be through stress.

My doctor said if i ever try this stuff again it could put me in hospital, leave me with permanent physical and psychological problems, or even kill me. He even offered to write me off work indefinately as suffering from clinical stress. However, i know it was self-inflicted and now that i have stopped taking this stuff, i said i'll play it by ear in the next few weeks and hopefully i'll return to normality (although some of my hair is still missing and the weight is going to be slow to recover).

On the positive side , my strength did go up a bit throughout these 3 weeks. Oh, and i didnt get any gyno.

I know i was a complete dick for not stopping taking this stuff when the symptoms started, but because i read that so many people have had minimal or no sides with PH's (often stuff twice as strong as Animal Stak), i just went into it blind and ignored the problems disbelieving they would stay or get worse cos it hasnt happened to others. However, if you read the small print, all the warnings about PH's are there to see, plain and simple.

So my moral: Dont ignore the warnings about PH's. Be aware that the problems with them CAN happen to you, even if 50 other people you know that use PH's dont get them. Watch out for symptoms and dont be ignorant about the effects they can have on your body, or you could end up in the same shit as me.

Glad you're OK, but it's very likely the stimulants and not the prohormones that gave you problems.

How much were you taking? Was it the old or new formula (the old one contained Ma Huang, the new one uses something else)? Taken in high enough quantities, the stimulants can cause many of the symptoms you described, especially: high blood pressure, numbness, pain, mood swings, headaches, vision problems, short temper.

Your doctor's reaction is kind of typical. Many oppose things as benign as protein powder. Permanent psychological problems? That's a pretty hysterical warning from your doctor.

Give me a friggin break, you used animal stak. Why the hell would you do that? It's absolute garbage. I can't believe that someone who actually reads these forums would use animal stak. Believe me your story doesn't apply to legit prohormones. Try S1+ and tell me you have the same problems. You won't.

Dont remember seeing this in my 4 diol, M1T, M1,4 or any other PH
Guess some more research on this persons behalf would have saved him a trip to the DR!
Bitter Orange}
Bitter orange is an extract from the bitter Seville orange that's supposed to provide a safe alternative to ephedra. In all honesty, I must point out, however, that there's no research supporting that claim. Its active ingredients are hydroxy citric acid (HCA) and synepherine, which is sold in over-the-counter form in the nasal spray Neosynepherine.
Bitter orange extract works in much the same way as ephedra and while the jury is still out on whether it's safer than ephedra, health and nutrition experts who believe it is point to it's distinct benefits including its ability to: 1. Lower production of cholesterol; 2. Suppress appetite; 3. Increase the body's production of heat (thermogenesis); and 4. Reduce the conversion of carbohydrates into fat.

Bitter orange extract may be found in weight loss products like Xenadrine EFX, Hydroxycut Ephedra Free and Nophedra 1. Each may also contain ingredients like caffeine, gurana, and green tea extracts, and/or gareinia cambogia extract.

Some doctors are expressing concern about the use of bitter orange in weight loss supplements! So if the supplements you're buying say ephedra-free, read the labels and make sure you work with a nutritionist or other health care professional to determine if such products are right for you.
---------------
Guarana Extract}
Guarana Extract increases mental alertness and combats fatigue and is a very high source of energy. Guarana is a source of naturally occurring caffeine and contains a higher percentage of caffeine than coffee.

Do I need to go on?

Peace

I wouldn't be surprised if you get some friction for reporting this, partly because this forum caters in part to PH users, but more importantly because there isn't any information here that suggests Animal Stak is responsible for your health problems. I would be interested in the details of your diet and the supplements you're taking, if you don't mind posting them. It's true that PHs can cause adverse reactions, and some are more sensative then others. I would suggest taking a good look at your diet, nutritional supplements, history of blood pressure, etc.

Anyways, thanks for posting your experiences. It's a good reminder of the risks involved with taking performance enhancing supplements.

-Lite

This post has been edited by lite12 on Aug 13 2004, 04:04 PM

Was the non-ephedra formula, not that should make a diff as I have done ECA's before - i do a 'cutting phase' 2 times a year for about a month each time using ECAs. I also have taken much higher doses of guarana (800-900g) than the level in this stack in the past for extended periods of time. None of these have given me the kinda reactions i had from this. I had never done bitter orange before, but i have read up a bit on it and most of what i come across suggests its a mild thermogenic - pretty harmless stuff. This is why i removed stimulants from the equation. However, i never took them on an empty stomach as this product recommends, so i dont know if that changes things. It definately felt like the constant underlying rage and stress was triggering these things - i felt like a bomb waiting to go off, without ever knowing why, which was even more frustrating.

I take yer point about Animal Stak being a crap product. However, i wanted to 'test the water' with something low grade, and from the forums i read, this stuff is the lowest of the low. And, yes, doctors do tend to jump the gun over things they probably know very little about, but he does know the symptoms of clinical stress, and was pretty sure the sides were pushing me that way. Anyway, i dont think i need him to tell me that its not a good idea to try this stuff again

Well, i probably will get some grief for posting this. However, i said from the start, i am NOT anti-PH. I beleive from the number of users on this site that have given them great reviews they must do something. Its just that every now and again somoeone who wants to try them for the 1st time can have severe reactions to them like i did. For the majority this probably wont be the case. I just posted my feelings to warn 1st time PH users not to jump in blindly like i did and regret it - do some research on what the stuff does beforehand.

I am on (daily):

- Antioxidant
- Glutamine
- Creatine
- Multivitamin / mineral
- 1 gram Vit C

I sometimes take melatonin at night for extra sleep hours on a weekend.

I am on a 40% protein, 40% CHO, 20% fat diet, all derived from natural foods (liver, steak, turkey, tuna, salmon, soya beans, lentils, brown rice and pasta, lots of veg) except for 2 whey protein drinks a day - 3500 kcals total a day, 6 meals a day + 5 litres water.

Robert-- Yes, taking ephedra on an empty stomach is much different from taking it with food-- in my experience. And just because you used ECA doesn't mean other stimulants might not give you problems. Maybe it is the PH, but it seems like you can't single it out given the dosage and the number of other products you were taking.

Mostly I just think your statement is arbitrary and you didn't seem to give much reason to isolate PH as the cause.

Animal Stak is crap and it will only get you side effects without results worth crap. Read the forums a little and you'll see there are tons of good products you can take like s1+

Hi all,

Since i finished that Animal Stak everything seems to have gone back to normal, except i still get chest pains every now and then, and im minus some hair. From what i've read of other reviews and forums, Animal Stak is shite and has produced some serious sides (esp. psychological) in other people as well. I swore to myself never to give PH another shot, but seeing as they are about to be banned i thought i'd try a more popular one like S1 before its to late. I'll post if i get the same sides.

Check my post Robert.

Trust me it was all the animal stak's "amazing patent pending mass formula" that gave you this adverse reaction. When I was an ignorant rookie I took the stuff too and it made my heart race uncontrolably to the point where I had to lay down not moving. It also caused adverse reactions in my mood as well. On top of all the negatives I got no poisitives, no increase in strength or size, if anything I lost some because whenever I would work out my heart would race so fast I would get dizzy and have to go home. Now being more educated I have used REAL prohormones like s1+ M1T and M4ohn and experienced nothing. Dont let one terrible product sour you from a whole selection of quality supplements. Learn from your mistakes and RESEARCH next time before you put something unnatural in your body and you'll be fine.

Animal stack was my first ph at the tender age of 17. I didnt know any better then. I do remember it giving me the racing heart feeling, and a little more agression, but thats what i liked about it.

I think it's safe to assume that your doctor did not take your health warnings seriously enough. The hypertension, pain in upper right quadrant, aggression, hair falling out, are all symptoms of immense stress, and probably have little to do with the prohormones in Animal Stak, and probably more to do with an allergic reaction to a chemical in the product. I would seek the advise of an allergist, show him or her the product ingredients, and have him make the final pronouncment.

Robert,
Please don't feel that I am flaming you. I believe you are posting this subjective information with the goal and intent to help others. However, did it ever occur to you that since your doctor never ordered a liver enzyme panel (or any further medical test from your account) he never considered any steroid related reaction? Any good oral steroid in appropriate dosages will give you a rise in liver enzymes. So will drinking large amounts of alcohol, daily tylenol, decades of eating fruits and vegetables sprayed with pesticides and even straight exercise. But I digress since he didn't even want to have a look at that. What was your blood pressure? How much hair did you lose? Actually, how old are you?Like someone here said, the symptoms you got are more indicators of synephrine intoxication (bitter orange). Next time you want to experiment with a substance try to get the straight stuff and avoid the pre-made stacks. Just try 4 weeks of 1ad, 4ad and 6-OXO at maximal label dosages and you wont have any serious side effects. Hair loss will happen if you are genetically predisposed to it. It'sl happen with/without Animal Stack or straight M-DHT. Arnold, Franco and your compatriot Dorian took boatloads of gear and sport full heads of hair. Keep experimenting. PS English is not my mother tongue. If i'm to post here I will do so in english as this is an american based forum. Please make our lives easier and talk in pounds or even kilograms when you refer to weight units.

I take animal stak stacked with 19-nor-4andro and its given me no problems...
i'm also cycling off of it and switching to methyl-1-test just because i didn't like the fact that they substituted actual 4-andro in animal stak to 50 grams more 19-nor-5 and 50 grams more of some 5-andro mixture they have. I haven't had any problem whatsoever while on it except a random pressure like pain on the upper right part of my chest but i think its unrelated. Regardless i'm done taking it and bought a bulk about of methyl-1-test instead.

I wouldn't lump animal stak in with all PHs, theres so much more crap in there other than PH and a shitload of stimulants.

I personally know somebody who I have worked out with for years. He had never experimented wit PHS either. He went on 1-ad alone, taking 300 mgs a day, to play it safe. At about the 2nd week of his 1-ad cycle, he started getting heart palpitations and dizziness, also he felt EXTREME nervousness. I have knows this guy for about 22 years. I think it's the first time I have ever known him to see a doctor. He is a person in extremely good shape, hasnt even had a cold in years. Everybody reacts differently to different substances. Unfortunately, the "if dizziness or nervousness appears, discontinue use" warning came true for him. He swears never to take anything like that again. I guess its just different for everybody. But I do agree, 1st time users, tread lightly until you know how your body will react.