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 Swank's Cutting Diet (Cont'd from other thread), Sarge, Dr. X, Accent - I have questions |  |
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I didn't want to keep that thread bumped about my cut, so I created this thread. Below is my updated diet as of right now. After deciding I wasn't comfortable going with the CKD until I'm sporting a lower BF%, I decided to aim for a 1:1:1 ratio as suggested by sarge, but with the protein intake aimed at 1.5xLBM it's more of a 30%, 30%, 40% (time) (serving) (food) (total cals) (g F) (g C) (g P) 800am (Breakfast C & P) 1 Whey/ Casein (mixed) 1.5 Brown Rice 0.2 Carb Powder 406.95kcals - 3.75gF 63.3gC 30gP 1030am (Snack F & P) 4 Large Egg Whites .66 Flax Oil1 Almonds290.79kcals - 21.73gF 3.8gC 20gP 100pm (Lunch F & P) 1 Chicken Breast 1 Almonds293.5kcals - 17.5gF 3gC 31gP 400pm (Snack/PREWO P & C) 1 Chicken Breast 0.5 Brown Rice 212.25kcals - 4.25gF 16.5gC 27gP 630pm (POSTWO P & C) 1.75 Optimum Nutrition 100% Gold Whey 1 Cytosport Carb Powder 428.63kcals - 2.625gF 59.25gC 42gP 730pm (Dinner P & F) 1 Chicken Breast 0.5 Extra Virgin Olive Oil 194kcals - 10.5gF 0gC 25gP 930pm (Stomach Filler, Pre Bed P & F) 1 Natural PB 1 Optimum Nutrition Casein Protein214kcals - 9gF 5.4gC 27.85gP TOTAL DAILY 2040.62kcals 30.6% 69.36gF 29.6% 151.3gC 39.8% 202.85gP (I fall somewhere below) 150# LBM: 1741kcals BMR @ 1.35: 2350(-500) = 1850 @ 1.55: 2699(-500) = 2199 140# LBM: 1683kcals BMR @ 1.35: 2272(-500) = 1772 @ 1.55: 2609(-500) = 2109 My Training Cardio Note: I'm 24yo, So my max heart BPM is around 195. Monday AM - Medium Intensity Cardio for ~30min (keeping heart BPM above low range and below high range; 140-165) PM - Legs/Shoulders/Traps Tuesday AM - Higher Intensity Cardio for 20-30min (getting heart BPM to safe limit, bringing down to top of medium range, repeat; 155-189) PM - Abs (Emphasis on Transverse Abdominis (TA) and Lumbar Multifidus (MF), then Upper Abs, Lower Abs, Obliques) Wednesday AM - Medium Intensity Cardio ~30min PM - Chest/Triceps Thursday AM - Higher Intensity Cardio ~20-30min PM - Abs (TA/MF, Upper, Lower, Oblique) Friday AM - Medium Intensity Cardio ~30min PM - Back/Biceps Saturday (Optional, depends on my Friday night, how much rest I need and time I have) AM - Higher Intensity Cardio ~20-30min PM - Abs (TA/MF, Upper, Lower, Oblique) Sunday OFF DAY Okay first thing's first. Any immediate feedback that comes to mind from reviewing the above, is welcomed. First thing in the morning I am doing cardio on an empty stomach. When I get back to the house after the cardio, I take a shot of whey/casien protein (1/2 scoop of each), about 24g protein. Then I warm up some brown rice, and attempt my AM carb intake. Here's a question: would there be any negatives if I were to add like a 1/4 scoop of my cytosport carb powder (~13g carbs) to this morning shake, which i take in just before i hit up the brown rice?? This would help me get that carb number up a bit (although I calculated it in above), and I'm also thinking it would be beneficial to replenishing my body from the cardio, but I really don't want to hurt my fat-loss gains or have un-needed calories. Another question: I understand "Dairy" in general isn't the best because it softens the skin (something with the lactose in the sugar??).. Does Casein protein powder exhibit this same drawback? I've cut string cheese and non-fat milk/yogurt out of my diet entirely (aside from the damn sugar) because I don't want this "softening" going on for the next few months while I cut. Aside from what you see here, that's about it. I am a bit OCD and maybe am not taking in enough calories... I don't want to take in too much in case I miss a day here or there due to needing to catch up on sleep or a business dinner, etc. I also don't want to increase my carb intake pre-workout as I'm trying to stay as far away from non-breakfast and non-postworkout carbs as possible, which is proving to give me a tough time getting my carb intake done right. If I need to increase Calories, I think my first option would be to increase my Fat intake, as I'm comfortable with the protein as it is right now... Thoughts on this? Thank you all in advance, this is by far the most effective diet-planning I've done yet. HGW, Yohimb, and Fenugrk. THANK YOU WILL.
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I'd lose the carb powder in your first meal Workout looks good I'd like to see what you're doing for actual sets/reps. Little hardcore on the cardio. I'd start lower and add more in as your body adjusts. I'd do the same with your calories as well start around 2200 for a week or so then taper down. Sarge will probably be able to chime in better on your ketosis diet, but it looks good for a normal cut. Here's some good info on a similar cutting diet. http://www.scivationbooks.com/
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i really appreciate the serious reply
| QUOTE (accent) | | Little hardcore on the cardio. I'd start lower and add more in as your body adjusts. I'd do the same with your calories as well start around 2200 for a week or so then taper down. |
If I were to add cals to this it would be in fat and protein, don't know how that would effect the diet --- I guess Sarge could offer his 0.02$ on that one... I will update the OP with the actual excersizes.. HGW, Yohimb, and Fenugrk. THANK YOU WILL.
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Well it depends on what kind of Cardio you are doing. For keeping your Metabolism high pretty much all day. I would suggest Sprinting, Also I started using the Stair master. I dont want to raise the heart rate too high so I stay on level 3,4,5, but mainly 4. Its a slow pace, though I cant believe how much I am sweating just on level 3 even! Also it doesnt make sense why you are doing cardio on empty stomach. Thats a big No no! Your already have been sleeping for 8 hours (hopefully), so your body has not eaten since then. And on top of that your doing cardio, its just going to eat your muscle tissue since your Glycogen stores are low from the night. And lean muscle is like Gold! Loose that, and your metabolism slows, fat storage starts, Gain alot of water weight, cant eat as much then, since it takes around 30-50 calories per pound of muscle to maintain. So as soon as you wake up take some AAKG, then your 1.5 scoops of whey with water, or Unsweetend light silk soy milk, 80 cals, 3 carbs, 6g of protein per 8oz. Then do some cardio.
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| QUOTE (hadi_D @ Jul 31 2008, 11:43 AM) | | Well it depends on what kind of Cardio you are doing. For keeping your Metabolism high pretty much all day. I would suggest Sprinting, Also I started using the Stair master. I dont want to raise the heart rate too high so I stay on level 3,4,5, but mainly 4. Its a slow pace, though I cant believe how much I am sweating just on level 3 even! Also it doesnt make sense why you are doing cardio on empty stomach. Thats a big No no! Your already have been sleeping for 8 hours (hopefully), so your body has not eaten since then. And on top of that your doing cardio, its just going to eat your muscle tissue since your Glycogen stores are low from the night. And lean muscle is like Gold! Loose that, and your metabolism slows, fat storage starts, Gain alot of water weight, cant eat as much then, since it takes around 30-50 calories per pound of muscle to maintain. So as soon as you wake up take some AAKG, then your 1.5 scoops of whey with water, or Unsweetend light silk soy milk, 80 cals, 3 carbs, 6g of protein per 8oz. Then do some cardio. |
i think you might be the first person i've heard say cardio on an empty stomach is not good for cutting... 
HGW, Yohimb, and Fenugrk. THANK YOU WILL.
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The idea behind doing cardio on an empty stomach is because glycogen levels are low, so it's ideal to add in some form of bcaa's or a protein shake works in order to detur muscle burning. However normal whey has a significant insulin spike which would hurt fat burning. Here's some info for after http://forums.bulknutrition.com/?showtopic...=0&#entry323201and yes, no need for dairy.
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| QUOTE (accent115 @ Jul 31 2008, 12:08 PM) |
and yes, no need for dairy. |
yeah --- but what about casien protein??? as for the BCAAs before AM cardio, how's a serving of bcaa powder with some h20 before I head out? I'd prefer not to do whey pre-cardio as it spikes insulin... PS- Shakes, what's up man, how've you been? Where's the hippy guy - can't remember his name... Also Trouble, lol where'd she get to? Another question, when the Beta Alanine arrives, how should I dose it? HGW, Yohimb, and Fenugrk. THANK YOU WILL.
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| QUOTE (swankinrosco @ Jul 31 2008, 01:22 PM) | | QUOTE (accent115 @ Jul 31 2008, 12:08 PM) |
and yes, no need for dairy. |
yeah --- but what about casien protein??? |
That's fine, i'm assuming youre referring to the protein supplement, not the protein you'd get from milk etc.
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| QUOTE (accent115 @ Jul 31 2008, 01:25 PM) | | QUOTE (swankinrosco @ Jul 31 2008, 01:22 PM) | | QUOTE (accent115 @ Jul 31 2008, 12:08 PM) |
and yes, no need for dairy. |
yeah --- but what about casien protein??? |
That's fine, i'm assuming youre referring to the protein supplement, not the protein you'd get from milk etc. |
yes the casein powder.. i read the post-cardio food article from dr. x, and i don't feel that my breakfast is that far off. i come in from the run, hit a shot of whey and get to some brown rice... am i eating too much brown rice, or ???
HGW, Yohimb, and Fenugrk. THANK YOU WILL.
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Dairy is fine. None of us are competing, are we? There are much bigger downfalls to our training and diet than eating/drinking dairy products.
| QUOTE | | I'd prefer not to do whey pre-cardio as it spikes insulin... |
Working out itself spikes insulin. It's not always a bad thing. Whey would be fine.
| QUOTE | | PS- Shakes, what's up man, how've you been? Where's the hippy guy - can't remember his name... Also Trouble, lol where'd she get to? |
Word. Hippy guy = Agnostic Front? He's been outy for a bit. You can find him on MySpace. Trouble was ousted (ran off) a couple years ago. People were giving her a hard time for whatever reason and she jetted. I haven't seen her post on other boards, either (AM, M&M, Avant, etc.). Didn't you have the bouncing boobies as your avy back in the day? Show me the money! | QUOTE | | Another question, when the Beta Alanine arrives, how should I dose it? |
I would start low w/ the BA, maybe 2g per dose. You will get that niacin like flush/tingle at first. I used to do 2g pre and 2g post.
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| QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Jul 31 2008, 02:12 PM) | Dairy is fine. None of us are competing, are we? There are much bigger downfalls to our training and diet than eating/drinking dairy products.
| QUOTE | | I'd prefer not to do whey pre-cardio as it spikes insulin... |
Working out itself spikes insulin. It's not always a bad thing. Whey would be fine.
| QUOTE | | PS- Shakes, what's up man, how've you been? Where's the hippy guy - can't remember his name... Also Trouble, lol where'd she get to? |
Word. Hippy guy = Agnostic Front? He's been outy for a bit. You can find him on MySpace. Trouble was ousted (ran off) a couple years ago. People were giving her a hard time for whatever reason and she jetted. I haven't seen her post on other boards, either (AM, M&M, Avant, etc.). Didn't you have the bouncing boobies as your avy back in the day? Show me the money! | QUOTE | | Another question, when the Beta Alanine arrives, how should I dose it? |
I would start low w/ the BA, maybe 2g per dose. You will get that niacin like flush/tingle at first. I used to do 2g pre and 2g post. |
Agnostic Front, yeah... Let me ask this Shakes, if I take the BCAAs PRE Cardio, how impactful would the Whey be, Pre Cardio? ... Especially since I'll be taking some immediately post cardio ? If I take a good dose of BCAAs will that essentially rule out the need for the Whey? I'm really busting my ass here to shred 19-25 lbs in 13 weeks, at least this is the plan.
HGW, Yohimb, and Fenugrk. THANK YOU WILL.
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| QUOTE (swankinrosco @ Jul 31 2008, 02:31 PM) | Let me ask this Shakes, if I take the BCAAs PRE Cardio, how impactful would the Whey be, Pre Cardio? ... Especially since I'll be taking some immediately post cardio ?
If I take a good dose of BCAAs will that essentially rule out the need for the Whey?
I'm really busting my ass here to shred 19-25 lbs in 13 weeks, at least this is the plan. |
If you are taking aminos pre-workout, then whey would be a bit redundant. I would worry less about the whey/ BCAA pre-cardio and more about putting more time in. Fuck it, run 2x a day. It's going to be more about burning those calories, and the measly amount regarding what a person takes pre-cardio will not matter much. I believe I saw a study or two that compared taking whey vs. empty stomach pre-cardio. I believe the result was an increase in retained LBM, not sure about the effects on fat loss. Also, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that speak in favor of whey vs. empty stomach. But, do your own research, as I may be mistaken. Also, vary up your cardio routine. It's no different than varying a lifting routine. Do sprints, do mid-distance runs, do long distance jogs, jump rope, do some CrossFit stuff. Keep it interesting and you will have no problem putting in the extra time.
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Server keeps timing out when I try to edit the OP, so here's an updated food plan, based on the cardio-eating recommendations. I added some Oats to my Post-Cardio Whey, and added an Egg to my Brown Rice (Primary daily carb-up)... (time) (serving) (food) (total cals) (g F) (g C) (g P) 700am (Post Cardio C & P) 1 Whey/ Casein (mixed) 1 Quaker Oats 260.5kcals - 4.5gF 26gC 29gP 800am (Breakfast C & P) 1 Brown Rice 1 Large Egg White 305.05kcals - 1.6gF 33.2gC 7.5gP 1030am (Snack F & P) 4 Large Egg Whites .66 Flax Oil1 Almonds290.79kcals - 21.73gF 3.8gC 20gP 100pm (Lunch F & P) 1 Chicken Breast 1 Almonds293.5kcals - 17.5gF 3gC 31gP 400pm (Snack/PREWO P & C) 1 Chicken Breast 0.5 Brown Rice 212.25kcals - 4.25gF 16.5gC 27gP 630pm (POSTWO P & C) 1.75 Optimum Nutrition 100% Gold Whey 1 Cytosport Carb Powder 428.63kcals - 2.625gF 59.25gC 42gP 730pm (Dinner P & F) 1 Chicken Breast 0.5 Extra Virgin Olive Oil 194kcals - 10.5gF 0gC 25gP 930pm (Stomach Filler, Pre Sleep P & F) 1 Natural PB 1 Optimum Nutrition Casein Protein214kcals - 9gF 5.4gC 27.85gP TOTAL DAILY 2071.3684 31.16% 71.7gF 28.42% 141.15gC 40.43% 209.35gP (I fall somewhere below) 150# LBM: 1741kcals BMR @ 1.35: 2350(-500) = 1850 @ 1.55: 2699(-500) = 2199 140# LBM: 1683kcals BMR @ 1.35: 2272(-500) = 1772 @ 1.55: 2609(-500) = 2109 HGW, Yohimb, and Fenugrk. THANK YOU WILL.
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| QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Jul 31 2008, 02:40 PM) | | QUOTE (swankinrosco @ Jul 31 2008, 02:31 PM) | Let me ask this Shakes, if I take the BCAAs PRE Cardio, how impactful would the Whey be, Pre Cardio? ... Especially since I'll be taking some immediately post cardio ?
If I take a good dose of BCAAs will that essentially rule out the need for the Whey?
I'm really busting my ass here to shred 19-25 lbs in 13 weeks, at least this is the plan. |
If you are taking aminos pre-workout, then whey would be a bit redundant. I would worry less about the whey/ BCAA pre-cardio and more about putting more time in. Fuck it, run 2x a day. It's going to be more about burning those calories, and the measly amount regarding what a person takes pre-cardio will not matter much. I believe I saw a study or two that compared taking whey vs. empty stomach pre-cardio. I believe the result was an increase in retained LBM, not sure about the effects on fat loss. Also, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that speak in favor of whey vs. empty stomach. But, do your own research, as I may be mistaken. Also, vary up your cardio routine. It's no different than varying a lifting routine. Do sprints, do mid-distance runs, do long distance jogs, jump rope, do some CrossFit stuff. Keep it interesting and you will have no problem putting in the extra time. |
i'm not worried about putting in the time... as you can see, i've got 6 days a week here devoted to cardio and lifting. as for mixing it up, yeah that's great, i'm just giving you guys a sample of what i've been doing for the last couple weeks. anyhow, i'm all for retaining LBM, if the whey will prevent LBM loss, then hell yes. but if BCAAs will do the same thing .... or if whey will hinder fat loss .... i'm not so sure what route I'd like to take. I'm anxious to hear Dr. X's opinion on this one really...
HGW, Yohimb, and Fenugrk. THANK YOU WILL.
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| QUOTE (swankinrosco @ Jul 31 2008, 03:04 PM) | | QUOTE (ShakesAllDay @ Jul 31 2008, 02:40 PM) | | QUOTE (swankinrosco @ Jul 31 2008, 02:31 PM) | Let me ask this Shakes, if I take the BCAAs PRE Cardio, how impactful would the Whey be, Pre Cardio? ... Especially since I'll be taking some immediately post cardio ?
If I take a good dose of BCAAs will that essentially rule out the need for the Whey?
I'm really busting my ass here to shred 19-25 lbs in 13 weeks, at least this is the plan. |
If you are taking aminos pre-workout, then whey would be a bit redundant. I would worry less about the whey/ BCAA pre-cardio and more about putting more time in. Fuck it, run 2x a day. It's going to be more about burning those calories, and the measly amount regarding what a person takes pre-cardio will not matter much. I believe I saw a study or two that compared taking whey vs. empty stomach pre-cardio. I believe the result was an increase in retained LBM, not sure about the effects on fat loss. Also, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that speak in favor of whey vs. empty stomach. But, do your own research, as I may be mistaken. Also, vary up your cardio routine. It's no different than varying a lifting routine. Do sprints, do mid-distance runs, do long distance jogs, jump rope, do some CrossFit stuff. Keep it interesting and you will have no problem putting in the extra time. |
i'm not worried about putting in the time... as you can see, i've got 6 days a week here devoted to cardio and lifting. as for mixing it up, yeah that's great, i'm just giving you guys a sample of what i've been doing for the last couple weeks. anyhow, i'm all for retaining LBM, if the whey will prevent LBM loss, then hell yes. but if BCAAs will do the same thing .... or if whey will hinder fat loss .... i'm not so sure what route I'd like to take. I'm anxious to hear Dr. X's opinion on this one really... |
You wanna know when to eat an apple? Well, fuck you then, punk!  
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BCAAs are obviously more efficient, but more expensive. The protein is already broken down into what you want. You should sip the bcaas throughout your cardio and a little before.
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