Considering my first cycle.

1Fast400 Forums > Hormone/Prohormones

Posted by: rbrooks656 Jul 8 2008, 03:19 PM

Considering an Epistane cycle. I have been reading alot and I want to make sure I have everything right, so as to not waste money on dosing improperly or causing a test shutdown by overdosing or whatever.

Currently

26 years old -- 27 in 4 days

6'2" 200lbs
14ish % BF -- haven't measured it in awhile, but its low enough to see bicep veins now.

Diet usually consists of a carb heavy breakfast -- oatmeal and protein with maybe some sort of peanut butter full fat, lunch is usually veg + meat, low to no carbs, dinner is usually another meat + veg. Note: I also have carbs right after workout as well to replenish. I split 3-4 protein drinks in between, and sometimes a skim milk based protein drink later in the evening to shut my stomach up.

Anyways, it seems pulsing is the best way to avoid side effects. The epistane + cycle support for 74 seems like the best call.

Dosing -

Week 1 - 3 days on starting with 10mg preworkout and postworkout first day and increasing to 20mg pre and 20mg post by the third day.

Week 2 - 3 days on @ 20mg preworkout and 20mg postworkout

Week 3-4 -- off

Week 5 -- repeat weeks one and two

Does that sound right? And I was wondering if I would see improved results by using a 6-oxo product from say dermabolics on my weeks off? Any changes that could improve results from what I'm doing and things I might need or suggestions, let me know. Thanks guys.

Posted by: Eric137638 Jul 8 2008, 04:01 PM

I would do 20mg/day for week 1, 30mg/day week 2, and week 3 and 4 at 40mg. Ive done 2 epi cycles in the past, its pretty good mild stuff.

Posted by: rbrooks656 Jul 8 2008, 04:08 PM

I'm trying to avoid a SERM and this seemed to be the best call.

Posted by: DAdams91982 Jul 8 2008, 04:25 PM

First I would say dial down the Protien drinks. Two a day is what you should shoot for (Pre/Post Workout.) Trade em out for a handful of almonds or something like that if your are just looking for a quick snack.

As for the Epi, your protocol looks good. Though I would personally just go a strait cycle. Do your 4-6 weeks and recover.

But if a SERM isnt in your vocabulary, then yes it looks good. Run your ancillaries, and you will see good results.

Adams

Posted by: rbrooks656 Jul 8 2008, 04:31 PM

Problem with me limiting carbs is that I'm always hungry, and its the cheapest source of protein, though of course, it has no fats, being an isolate. I might consider adding some peanut butter to the shakes, as that could help boost it up.

Posted by: DAdams91982 Jul 8 2008, 04:40 PM

I understand the idea of quick and cheap protien. The problem with it is the rate of assimilation. The window of benefit from a drink, and that of solid food is just insurmountable (sp?). It is easy to grab a zip lock baggy with almonds, and have them on hand, or even beef jerky. You dont just want to load up the protien, you want to load up the quality protien, and you just dont get that from a shake.

Adams

Posted by: rbrooks656 Jul 8 2008, 05:42 PM

I thought whey was the most bioavailable protein you could consume, and also the most complete?

Posted by: DAdams91982 Jul 8 2008, 06:11 PM

Whey has its advantages, as I said, pre and post workout. Whey is the fastest assimilating protien. Meaning only a few hours in the body. Whereas say a Casien product lasts 7-8 hours, giving a nice steady flow of aminos to the muscles.

Unless you are working a velocity diet, then 2 shakes should be your goal. The rest replace with Chicken breast, tuna, almonds... anything with protien, and is solid.

You just cant make the gains you want drinking your protien.

Adams

Posted by: rbrooks656 Jul 8 2008, 06:17 PM

Yeah, I guess I was wondering why if I loaded the shake with peanut butter, it would slow the digestion rate down a bit with the fats in there. Its really hard to eat physical food versus drinking a quick shake when I have to work a 10-12 hour day at work.

Posted by: DAdams91982 Jul 8 2008, 06:24 PM

Trust me, I know. I am military, so I have to deal with the same issue day in day out.

The peanut butter would help a bit, maybe throw in a raw egg as well. If it is a necessity then do what you can to dress the shake up. But if at all possible, plan ahead to get solid food in.

I have a ton of tuna packets in my back pack, and some plastic spoons. It isnt very difficult, just you have to form that habit.

Adams

Posted by: workingatit46 Jul 9 2008, 12:30 PM

QUOTE (rbrooks656 @ Jul 8 2008, 04:08 PM)

I'm trying to avoid a SERM and this seemed to be the best call.

If your not going to use a SERM look into Post Cycle Support is was designed for Epi pct by the sinner. I do suggest if possible to have a SERM on hand just in case. We all react differently to these compounds but Epi is fairly mild. Best of luck bro

Posted by: SonnyEST Jul 9 2008, 12:52 PM

2 weeks running an epi product and then taking 2 weeks off I think you area going to be disappointed. I would run it as suggested for at least 4 weeks. It is a mild compound that can produce modest gains but they are able to be kept for the most part. A good compound for your first time. Also agree eat more solid foods.

Posted by: rbrooks656 Jul 9 2008, 11:29 PM

So would a 3 days on 4 off per week be safe without the break in weeks? The only issue I could see is possibly switching the way I work out. Currently I'm a 3 days on 1 off 3 on 2 off. Heavy reps first 3 lighter higher number of reps second 3. Or would I be best be off with a higher rep program of 8-10 per set for mass building on this?

Posted by: Rob Awesome Jul 10 2008, 09:10 AM

I'm definitely going to agree with Workingatit. If you're going to go OTC, first... check out Don Mangiarelli's www.OTCPCT.com for some good advice/tips/suggestions -

I personally would recommend a SERM for Epi, but to each his own. (SERM - Toremifene > Tamoxifen IMO)

For the OTC -

You want to cover all your bases; Natural Testosterone Support, Cortisol Control, Estrogen / Anti-Estrogenics, Aromatase Inhibitors and Liver/Metabolic/Hormonal Supports...

A lot happens when you increase exogenous testosterone consumption via a Prohormone or Designer Steroid...

Definitely check out;

POST Cycle Support for Natural Testosterone Support
Lean Xtreme (Designer Supplements) for Cortisol Control
6-OXO (Ergopharm) an Aromatase Inhibitor or ATD
I3C (NOW Foods) or Indol-3-Carbinol which is BENEFICIAL for Liver Support & Metabolic + BP regulation and function

The only OTC PCT Supp I'd taper down is the 6-OXO. 8-6-4-2, but that's me.

POST Cycle Support I'd go 3AM - 3PM.

and LX + I3C, recommended Doses.

Good Luck

Posted by: rbrooks656 Jul 11 2008, 11:53 AM

I have a large bottle of the Metacort, I was initially using it on its own, but I was just going to save it. It has a cortisol inhibitor and a estrogen aromatiser. I know everyones different but would say a MWF dosing cause shutdown if im doing it every week?

Posted by: Fishdog Jul 11 2008, 12:24 PM

I am currently running a MWF Epistane pulse cycle, My first week I ran it at 20pre 10 post, week 2 20/20 week 3 30/20. Once I hit the 50 gram a day, I started to shutdown. So I took a week off with a serm than, Now I am holding my MWF pulse steady at 20/10 for 3 more weeks. I also added 2 caps of 3AD on MWF. My goal is a recomp and have lost like 3 pounds but I am looking bigger and fuller, with abs and improved vascularity. My weights I lift have gone up slightly as well. So far I am liking it.

Posted by: LintLicker007 Jul 11 2008, 09:14 PM

FISHDOG- What do you mean but shutdown?

Posted by: Fishdog Jul 13 2008, 12:36 AM

The guy was asking if people lose their libido, which is due to the shutdown of the body's natural test production. Once I hit that 30/20 dosage, I was experiencing shutdown. The advantage of a pulse cycle is that you can avoid shutting down and stay on for a longer period of time. I found my sweet spot that if I pulse between 3 to 4 caps on MWF. That I am able to keep my bodys natural test production up.

Posted by: rbrooks656 Jul 13 2008, 02:16 AM

QUOTE (Fishdog @ Jul 13 2008, 12:36 AM)

That's what I was saying, and couldn't you use a pct-style product for test during your off days? Like a 6-oxo

Posted by: deviusdragger Jul 13 2008, 04:06 PM

Useful infofor a noob like me. thanks guys and to the original poster

Posted by: LintLicker007 Jul 13 2008, 05:18 PM

yeah, gets a little confusing sometimes

Posted by: Fishdog Jul 14 2008, 12:11 PM

QUOTE (rbrooks656 @ Jul 13 2008, 02:16 AM)

QUOTE (Fishdog @ Jul 13 2008, 12:36 AM)

That's what I was saying, and couldn't you use a pct-style product for test during your off days? Like a 6-oxo

On my off days I am using Fenugreek to try and boost test. You can use an AI like you suggested as well. I just don't have the funds, otherwise I would. I am definitely happy with my results thus far. One thing I have noticed was what the guy who did that big write up on AM, was the bounce back in Natural Test on off days, in particular on Sundays, which is my second day in a row off each week. I have been coming at my wife like an animal on those days, and she has noticed a difference too.

Posted by: accent115 Jul 14 2008, 01:53 PM

Fenugreek isn't going to boost your test that much look into something like testofen

Posted by: Reza2 Jul 18 2008, 06:51 AM

I know very lil about prohormones tried researching as much I can make sure you have a PCT planned out