Finally Took the Plunge |
1Fast400 Forums > Illicit Substances |
| Posted by: RepMeister May 12 2008, 02:22 PM |
| Well I have finally taken the plunge. After much research and deliberation on the subject I took my first pin of 400 mg Test E yesterday. My plan is to do a "roughly" 20 week cycle at 400 mg /wk. My first two shots will be 400 each to kick off the cycle. Following the advice I received from many members I am going to keep it simple and stick to Test only. I have Adex on hand if needed but will only use if Estro problems get bad. I don't think that I'll have any problems though at 400 mg/week. I also plan to taper down at the end - say to 200 mg/wk for a couple weeks, then 100 then 50 etc. I was pleasantly surprised to find I have no problem with the shots. After reading a few of the posts on here where guys were saying that they had great pain set in hours or a day later. So far no problem. I injected yesterday at about 2 pm. Started to feel a little ache about bed time which got a little worse over night - like a mild bruise. Still a little tender but no big deal. It was a glute shot and i probably did it a little too close to the hip because i couldn't reach. Next one will be a thigh shot so hopefully I will have the same result. I wasn't quite sure what to expect and I know it takes time to kick in. I was kind of thinking that I would be popping boners all day long with all that extra test in the system but nothing like that. I am looking forward to when this kicks in. |
| Posted by: goodskie May 12 2008, 06:27 PM |
| i dont see why people say test only for 2 reasons. 1, if you get sides within the first 2 weeks its gunna be the oral, the test hasnt kicked in yet. 2, u have to wait 4 weeks which suck plus test gains fade around weeks 10-12. if i were u i would add in winny or d-bol around then to keep gains commin if u wanna run this cycle 20 weeks. i'd still only go 16 if i were u. |
| Posted by: Michael36033 May 12 2008, 08:21 PM |
| Personally I would not run quite that long on a first cycle but you could watch your gains carefully and see if they plateau for a couple weeks - then it may be best to just end it and start PCT. I kind of like the idea in some ways if you can maintain the growth. You will be dealing with shutdown as well. Watching your balls shrink each week gets old and I think 20 weeks will take its toll. Like Skie said you won't see much in the way of gains until after 4 weeks in with test only. If I run another I would probably consider some dbol in the first few weeks but people do really well on test only especially for a first cycle. It is a trade off if you are concerned about sides, blood lipids blood pressure, etc. Orals will increase the risk of these and you cannot be too careful IMO. I doubt pain will be much of an issue with that dosing level. |
| Posted by: Jayv24 May 13 2008, 10:51 PM | ||
Why taper down? its pointless. You're already going to be shutdown hard by 20 weeks. Perhaps Consider upping your dose to 500/wk or at least frontload for the first couple of weeks. 400 mg's a week is mild bro. Run the adex to prevent some bloat and acne. even .25/ed would help. I'd also split your doses to 2x a week instead of 1x to keep blood levels a tad more stable. Good luck with the cycle. have fun. |
| Posted by: vanthehentai May 13 2008, 11:36 PM |
| I'm running the same noob cycle. So far I'm really happy man. I haven't injected my glutes (I'm not too flexible and I'm scared to f it up) but not to scare you or anything if you can keep doing your glutes I would stick to them. Especially if you're only pinning once or twice a week. Quads are kind of convenient but from personal exp they hurt like a bitch for a few days after. I've heard that glute shots are the least painful. I didn't really get much gains the first 4 weeks, just kinda waiting around for something to happen. But the last two weeks (weeks 5 and 6) I've been gaining a pound every other day. I'm up to 193 from 175 in about 7 weeks. I'm a little bloated and I've gotten a bit of a gut but man it feels great to be on. You'll love it. I started at 500mgs a week and when I started feeling it kick in I decided to up my dose to 600mgs a week. No sides that the adex hasn't been able to take care of. It's a lot of fun. Even though I'm sore afterwards I look forward to pinning every mon and fri almost like I used to look forward to Xmass as a kid. |
| Posted by: TommyD May 14 2008, 05:23 AM |
| Use a mirror for glute shots. It takes a bit to get used to but it works great for me |
| Posted by: RepMeister May 14 2008, 11:20 AM |
| Thanks for all the replies guys. I appreciate the input. The reason for the cycle design is that I have 20 ml of 400 mg/ml Test E. Hence, the first week will be two shots of 400 mg each for a total of 800 mg in the first week followed every week thereafter by two shots of 200 mg (.5 ml) per week for a total of 400 mg/week. All weeks will be two shots. Again, the length of the cycle is predicated by the bottle size - 20 ml. If I run a 12 to 14 week cycle then I don't have enough for the next cycle and I wasn't sure if it would keep once the stopper was punctured so I thought I'd use it up. I know that 400 mg/week is kind of low but I thought that 800 would be way too high for a first time cycle. I suppose I could do .75 ml shots x 2 per week for a total of 600 mg/week. This would cut the cycle length down to a total of 13 weeks for a straight cycle - or a little longer if I do the taper. I have some M1T that I could use to kick off the cycle but was really trying to avoid any orals this time round. M1T is very harsh. The other reason for keeping it to 400 per week is to hopefully keep the Estro in check without the Adex. I don't want to limit gains by limiting Estro. Any thoughts on these alternatives would be greatly appreciated. My thought behind the tapering at the end is that I had read an alternative to conventional PCT whereby instead of running full dose test to the end and then starting PCT, guys are now avoiding conventional PCT by gradually tapering off the Test. By gradually reducing the exogenous test, the body will kick in boosting levels to equilibrium and "turn itself back on" But the small amounts of exogenous test ensure that your are never left without any test at all. Everything I have read seems reasonable and those who have tried it like it. I have Toremifene on hand for conventional PCT. I was thinking trying the taper and seeing how I respond. If gonads start inflating then stick with it. If not, switch over to conventional PCT with the Torem. I would appreciate any input from anyone who has tried this method. The glute shots are difficult and I think I did the first one too close to the side of my hip becuase that was as far as I could reach with both hands. The pain is not terrible but it is still there now three days later - just sort of nagging - like a mule kick. Is that normal? I was considering a quad shot tonight or maybe into my pec? |
| Posted by: TAC May 14 2008, 03:10 PM | ||
Id be very surprised if that works for you - the science behind that theory is not sound at all - even very small doses of test will maintain shutdown at absolute zero natural production. That said, if you know anyone whose opinion you trust who claims to have good results then give it a go and let us know how you get on - Im genuinely happy to be proved wrong, and the weirdest things work for some people... there are few absolutes in this game |
| Posted by: jcsouthcentral May 14 2008, 04:26 PM |
| I know people that don't use anything for PCT. If they aren't getting estrogen related sides or ED, they don't bother. They just wait and see. Tapering might work, but I wouldn't bother. Your gains will start to slow later in the cycle and you will be just wasting gear and prevent your body from kicking in sooner. |
| Posted by: RepMeister May 14 2008, 07:26 PM |
| This is the article that summarizes the taper method. This is the protocol: Following the cycle use a 4-6 week waiting period also refered to as 'stasis period' by somebody. 4 weeks if you are using esters such as propinate. esters such as cypionate and enanthate are in the middle - 4-6 week waiting period - your decision as it is a tough call. I prefer more weeks then less. 6 week waiting period for esters such as decanoate -i.e. deca. During the waiting period you should taper off any aromatase inhibitors you are using - basically get rid of all drugs in your system besides testosterone. Once the waiting period is over, then gradually reduce the dose weekly for 6 weeks untill you are off. I preffer injecting enanthate twice per week as my ester of choice. But you can use propinate or sustenon as well, just devide it into 3 doses per week. Once the taper starts, that is around the time you would start using a serm if you are going to use one. You can taper without a serm and still be successfull doing so. the research showed no hpta suppression while using a serm and low dose testosterone - 100mg per week It also showed no hpta suppression with no serm use while using 25mg of testosterone enanthate per week. So as i said it is possible to taper with our without a serm successfully. If you are using HCG during the cycle to maintain testicular size and function - you must stop HCG at the end of your cycle and by hcg free throughout the waiting period. So to put it all together using testosterone enanthatate dose split into biweekly injections: Cycle ends, stop hcg if using, start Waiting peroid: Week 1-6 or 1-4: Test E 100mg per week Taper off Arimidex or femara fully by week 3 Taper phase: week 1-6 mg/ week: 80mg / 60mg/ 50mg/ 40mg/ 30 mg/ 20mg. Start your Serm (nolva or clomid) at the begining of the taper if you choose to do so. If you decide to use Masteron, Then you use 50mg Test E, and 50mg Masteron E per week or masteron prop, with test prop for the waiting period, and keep the ratio the same as you taper down as well (1:1, with the starting totol mg amount 100mg). No Serm use is needed and i have found libido to be even better when using this mix. the masteron acts as an anti E, and the DHT enhances libido. The masteron itself at that amount does not subtract from hpta function more than it adds libido enhance ment, and estrogen control. The masteron is the only drug that i have found to fit the bill perfectly for this purpose, but you can try aromasis as well, but I don't think it would have the same positive effects on libido. As for using other drugs during your pct that may enhance workouts and maintain size... there are a wide variety of supplements out there that have no negative effect on the hpta. As for other drugs, some options would be: IGF, MGF, HGH.... Clenbutoral, and Insulin which I highly do not recommend. |
| Posted by: RepMeister May 14 2008, 07:50 PM |
| When it's all laid out like that it seems to have merit. But then again, everything can be made to sound good. As TAC said, it was always my understanding that any exogenous test would keep you shut down. Therefore, I don't think I am up for being a guinea pig so I think I will just stick with regular PCT protocol. Why mess around with things you're not sure of. I don't know anybody personally who has tried this method. It is just some of the research I have come across. I do know people who just simply finish their cycle - no PCT of any kind - just stop. They seem to be ok and haven't reported any negative sides. Still don't think I'll try it. Just did a quad shot tonight. I am already noticing some discomfort in it. I have a feeling that this one will give me more trouble than the glute shot and even that has not settled down yet. How long does this take to settle down or is this what I can expect throughout the cycle? |
| Posted by: goodskie May 14 2008, 10:04 PM |
| a lot of people on t-nation do the stasis/taper. its actually stickied. they seem to think it trumps pct...and u can add nolva after the stasis when u are tapering. it seems like it would work, i dunno tho if u stay shut down when still injecting a little test.. |
| Posted by: RepMeister May 15 2008, 06:41 AM | ||
You called it Goodskie. The post was on T-Nation. I sure would like to see some evidence that the HPTA will "top-up" what you are not injecting. I am certainly not the most experienced at this but am trying to learn as much as I can. Conventional wisdom says if using exogenous test then the Gonads don't participate. But Prisoner quotes the magic number of 100 mg/wk as being non-suppressive. Would be nice to know where that came from. |