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> after 4 weeks of dieting down...
Posted: Mar 26 2008, 01:18 PM
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so if you guys think 2 hours is too long how long should someone interested in bbing be in the gym? cuz im usually there for that long, and sometimes longer. i feel like it takes me that long to do what i need to. i gotta stretch before and rest in between sets. i also have 2 training partners as of now so that takes some extra time too...

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Posted: Mar 26 2008, 01:26 PM
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Two plus hours means you've been stressing the body for quite a while without refueling. It could lead to catabolism.

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Posted: Mar 26 2008, 01:37 PM
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I'm occasionally in there for 1.5 hours, but the goal is always 1 hour. Regardless, I'm always downing some Purple Wraath and occasionally some carbs to prevent catabolism and promote growth.

Too much rest between sets is not a good thing. You guys should be in there to smash weights and not BS. You do not have to do every exercise known to man to have a kickass, productive workout. Stretching is necessary, but doesn't really count as part of your intense training.

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Posted: Mar 26 2008, 02:22 PM
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I'm in there about 60-70 minutes tops. I get in about 6 or 7 different kinds of exercises, except when I train legs since squats are taxing as hell (more rest).

How much shit do you do that you spend 2 hours in the fucking gym?

And my rest periods probably average 2-3 minutes on the heavy stuff.


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Posted: Mar 26 2008, 02:35 PM
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QUOTE (willpiazza31 @ Mar 26 2008, 02:22 PM)
How much shit do you do that you spend 2 hours in the fucking gym?

laugh.gif laugh.gif Tell me how your really feel Will. So true.

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Posted: Mar 26 2008, 07:12 PM
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umm for example yesterday was chest and bis. i did flat bench, preacher w curling bar, db flies, incline bb, standing db curls, ummmm preacher hammer curls, incline db bench, and 21s. that doesnt seem like that much to me... im also doing 5x5 on bench so that takes a little longer. also trying to develop my upper chest.

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Posted: Mar 26 2008, 08:53 PM
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I've honed my workouts to come in right around 50 min. And that includes my warmup.

For example, today's workout was (grouped items = superset)...

weighted pullup x 2
towel pullup x 2
db hammer curl x 4

cable low row x 4
db preacher curl x 4

bb deadlift x 4
bb curl x 4


Don't stop.

DO WORK!

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Posted: Mar 27 2008, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE (SFW_SFW @ Mar 26 2008, 08:12 PM)
umm for example yesterday was chest and bis. i did flat bench, preacher w curling bar, db flies, incline bb, standing db curls, ummmm preacher hammer curls, incline db bench, and 21s. that doesnt seem like that much to me... im also doing 5x5 on bench so that takes a little longer. also trying to develop my upper chest.

You could easily trim at least 30 minutes from that.

Stuff like preacher hammer curls and DB flyes together should take 10 minutes tops.

They're isolation movements which shouldn't require much rest time.


"Anyway, it's not what spews out of her mouth that matters, it's what you spew into her mouth."
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Posted: Mar 27 2008, 02:14 PM
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I don't normally rest more than 30 seconds in between, then again what do i know
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Posted: Mar 30 2008, 09:14 PM
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Sorry I haven't replied yet. I've been terribly busy. If you really want to know the principles of my training, I'm willing to explain it. As long as we can talk simply about the SCIENCE of physiology and exercise science.

Just let me know you are interested and I'll explain...as soon as I can that is!!!
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Posted: Mar 30 2008, 10:25 PM
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QUOTE (Jason2459 @ Mar 19 2008, 12:33 PM)
Ben - BTW, if you like the Blond Myth dvd's you'd probably really like the Yates DVD. I think it was called Blood and Guts. Awesome training vids in that.

yes jason that is what it is called i have it is awsome i will have too watch that soon.
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Posted: Mar 31 2008, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE (Younggunz @ Mar 30 2008, 09:14 PM)
Sorry I haven't replied yet. I've been terribly busy. If you really want to know the principles of my training, I'm willing to explain it. As long as we can talk simply about the SCIENCE of physiology and exercise science.

Just let me know you are interested and I'll explain...as soon as I can that is!!!

Are you studying exercise science?

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Posted: Apr 4 2008, 07:30 PM
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I'm going to make this as brief as possible, while yet still making sure to include all the rational behind the way I train.

First of all, I follow very closely to what Mike Mentzer advocated in Heavy Duty II, though I admit I do some irrational things based on my own physical desires in the gym. I know I would do better if I followed directly as he advocated, but I do some things differently, basically for my own enjoyment in the gym.

You may notice I explain some things very closely to how Mentzer did. I'm sorry for that, but if one man says it so perfectly, it's hard to rationalize it better. If we approach muscle growth as a science (as it should be), we would first note that skeletal muscle grows solely out of function. In other words, muscle only grows in order to lessen a stress on the body. Muscle only grows out of function, not for some sort of cosmetic purpose.

So what does that mean? It means, muscle only grows to become stronger so that added stress does not impede the body's homeostasis so deeply. If you think muscle grows for other reasons, you really need to do some studying into physiology.

Getting to the point; the only thing that causes muscle growth, is the intensity of effort put forth. You can talk all you want about micro-trauma, but you are talking the equivalent of calculus, when you don't have a keen grasp on addition. I can go in depth as well as anyone on the physiology of skeletal muscle, but you must understand the basics of rational training, before getting into the "calculus" of muscle growth.

Ok, so intensity is the key to growth...what does that mean? Let's look at a barbell curl. Let's say you can do 10reps with a 100lbs barbell. If every time you worked biceps, you did 10reps with 100lbs, never attempting to do 11, do you think you would ever grow? Of course not, because you've not given your body a reason to adapt (grow). It can already tolerate that level of stress. The only way to cause growth, is to increase the stress on the body further then it can tolerate. The only way to increase that stress and push the body beyond normal limits, is to train to muscular failure.

Now comes the question, well how often and how much do I have to do that. Answer: far less then everyone suggests. Anyone who suggests that you must do more then one set to properly stimulate growth is talking purely out of their ass(pardon the expression). Ask anyone that recommends more then one set to failure, and you will never get a rational answer. Go ahead and ask a physical therapist, exercise scientist, MD, anyone you want and truly think about the answer they provide. It is always blind guessing with little rational behind it whatsoever. I can almost quote verbatim how most "experts" respond to the statement that one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate maximal muscle growth.

Ok, so now I'm only doing one set to absolute muscular failure, how often do I have to do that? The precise amount that is necessary to allow for full recovery and full growth potential. Remember, muscle grows purely out of function, so the only reason muscle grows is to make an impedance of stress seem, well, less stressful. So, believe it or not, you should be stronger every time you enter the gym. If you enter the gym and you are not stronger then your last workout, you either did not allow enough time for recovery and growth and are over-trained, you did not meet your needs nutritionally (least likely to be true), or you did not train intensely enough to stimulate growth during your workout.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that intensity and volume are INVERSLY proportional. In other words, the longer you do something, the less intense you can make it. If you disagree, I suggest you study some physics. An example; giving it your all for both events, a 100 meter sprint is much more intense then a 2 mile run. That is a physical fact that no one can deny, provided they are rational human-beings. "I cannot explain the actions of irrational people."- Mike Mentzer. Just look at the leg development of a sprinter compared to that of a distance runner. That immense muscle growth is caused by the short burst of very intense work put forth by the sprinter.

The only reason people still advocate more then one set is because of tradition. There is absolutely no science behind it. It is and always has been strictly tradition, even in the "exercise science" field. It is not science, it is tradition. People tend to have an extremely hard time accepting the fact that more then one set is not needed because it goes against everything they have ever been told, even by self-proclaimed "experts" and "scientists".

More work is not better, less work is not better, but the precise amount that nature requires is what is best and will give you the fastest results. Please feel free to ask questions, but please, think deeply about your replies and questions. I know I'm cutting this short, but I only have so much time. I'm willing to answer as many questions as I have time for.

Train hard. Rest well.
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Posted: Apr 4 2008, 07:56 PM
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One new pic...stupid camera has poor quality. I'm not sure how to fix it. It takes pictures that look like cartoons, so I switched it to black and white and they come out nicer. Sorry about that. I'll get some new ones taken soon with a better camera...

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Posted: Apr 4 2008, 08:28 PM
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I've already said several times that I'm not totally against HIT as I've done several cycles using many different HIT methods but none of them turned out to be anything that I would want to do over the long haul. It was interesting and something that I enjoyed doing. Anyone interested in it I would suggest Mike Mentzers Heavy Duty books and his DVD. Which luckly he was able to do before he and his brother passed away.

But I certainly would never do HIT again as it was fine for when I was trying to add size but would never help me achieve my goals now.

Here is a con against HIT btw and a good read as well.

http://www.westside-barbell.com/Articles%2...s/01PDF/HIT.pdf

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Posted: Apr 4 2008, 08:29 PM
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And another; this one with color...sort of...

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Posted: Apr 4 2008, 08:31 PM
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BTW, HIT was first drawn up by Author Jones who designed the method around his other invention. Nautilus Machines.

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Posted: Apr 4 2008, 09:00 PM
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well theres nothin for me to disagree with here, i mean taking 1 set to failure is pretty typical, sometimes i do more... but i agree thats all you really need

But what you didn't cover is how many excercises per muscle group, warm-up sets, rest-times ect...

We were all arguing the amount of time a person spends in the gym for the most part

do you skip warm-up sets and jump straight into 80% of your 1RM? I need 2-3 warm-up sets b4 i reach that weight or my joints fall off

Do you stick to core lifts such as bench, squat, shoulder press, rows? Cuz i also like to do isolation lifts to bring up lagging bodyparts, which add more time




Current as of 03/08
Weight: 219lbs
Height: 6'1''
Bi's: 18''
Quads: 26''
Calves: 15.5''
Waist: 35''

PR's:
Bench: 335x1
Deads: 405x3
Milit. DB Press: 100's x6
Squat: 315x5
Incline: 275x2
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Posted: Apr 4 2008, 09:04 PM
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SOME of the principles of Heavy Duty were based on Aurthor Jones' research and works, but it was not based on his invention of nautilus machines. Nautilus Machines were designed for the purpose of providing full range resistance and maximal stimulation at the fully contracted position. His studies with growth stimulation added to his design of Nautilus machines, not the other way around.

Secondly, stating "I've already said several times " suggests that I am only talking to you and am ignoring your feedback and I certainly am not doing this. Also, if you are a power-lifter, then you are referring to a different type of strength...or what most people call "power".

I will investigate your posted reading, and comment soon. Thanks.
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Posted: Apr 4 2008, 09:07 PM
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i dnt think u have to be a scientist to understand what uve said blink.gif

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