When seconds count...

Ok, you gun nut

Simple solution. Make guns legal. Gun crime will obviously plummet.

Well, then you're unfortunately going to be subjected to higher rates of gun-crime. The solution is clear, I don't know how Parliament can't see it....more guns, less gun crime. It's American Logic 101...get with it UK.

It's a common misconception that more guns will lead to more gun-related crimes, but it's just not true. Make them legal and put a gun dealer on every corner in London. Gun-related crimes will decrease substantially...trust me.

you're being sarcastic right

I was gonna keep it up for another post or two, but yes...I've been very sarcastic in this thread. Sorry to dupe ya JR.

Yea i could tell you were bein sarcastic. Either that or you did'nt av a clue what you were on about.. that's why i said it would make the problem worse..

if he'd hit the guy, he'd have been a hero... one less dirt bag on the street. at the very least he kept himself from becoming more of a victim. he possibly would have ended up dead had he not taken the actions he did and used his weapon.


had strict gun control measures been in place that prevented this law abiding citizen from owning a gun and allowing him to use it in the manner he did (to protect his safety), the attacker would have potentially shot him dead. gun control doesn't take guns outta the hands of criminals -- it simply disarms those who follow the law

so your saying that this one case makes it ok for the million people who have legal permits and guns but use them in the wrong way? This is 1 good thing that has happened...what about all the bad things that happen because its so fuckign easy to carry a gun in the states.

can you prove for a fact that those attackers obtained their guns illegally rather than legally?

cheers JW, Ill check it out while I munch this beef jerky..shits so good

Make's sence.

+1

the rate of crime commited by those who have applied for and are legally allowed to carry concealed weapons is lower than that of the general public. that is a FACT

Really, it hasnt decreased crime so far. But the couple dozen or so occaisons each year in which a person with a handgun stops a would be criminal justifies the thousands of people who die each year by accidental shootings.

You know better than to make a statement like that without proof to back it up.

They should also ban baseball bats, rocks, knives, rope, poison etc...

Too bad he missed. Thats all I'm gonna say.

word...

of course i do... who the f do you think you're talking to here?
of course i've posted all this data before, just nobody takes the time to look at it...



FACT: People with concealed carry permits are(34):
• 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
• 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public

FACT: In Texas, citizens with concealed carry permits are 14 times less likely to commit a crime. They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime.(35)

FACT: Even gun control organizations agree it is a non-problem, as in Texas – “because there haven't been Wild West shootouts in the streets”.(36)

FACT: Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm.

FACT: In Florida, a state that has allowed concealed carry since 1989, you are twice as likely to be attacked by an alligator than a person with a concealed carry permit.(37)



(34) William Strdevant, unpublished study reported in August 2000 edition of America’s 1st Freedom
(35) Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express - News, September, 2000
(36) Nina Butts, Texans Against Gun Violence, Dallas Morning News, August 10, 2000
(37) Florida Department of State, “Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report”, 1998 – Florida Game and Fresh Water Fish Commission, December 1998

i have my concealed firearm permit and carry my glock 21 or springfield 1911 with me nearly everywhere i go (except the gym).

in order to have a permit- you have to go through a criminal background check, training, and as simple of an offense as domestic violence can revoke your concealed carrying rights for 10 years or indefinitely.

the "millions of people who have legal permits and guns" arent the ones using them in the wrong way. it's the criminals carrying illegal guns illegally that do the damage and no plausible laws or restrictions will ever stop that fact.

holy shit thats so badass.

imagine walking down NYC streets with that. god, itll take only about 5 minutes at most for police to come chasing after you.

Thats absolutely solid - how much did that set you back?

yeah. and it's as loud as a mofo. with such a short barrel, not all the powder has burned before the bullet leaves the muzzel, so there's a 5 foot long flash without the compensator/ flash suppressor. louder than my buddy's snub nose .44 magnum.

to answer your question, the bolt is actually pulled back with a spring located in that tube above the barrel.

and doogsy, it was only $400 (before the accessories)! kel-tec is still a relatively unknown maker with little advertisement costs. it jammed every other shot when i first got it, but kel-tec's customer service is so badass- i just sent it in for free and it's working flawlessly now. i can sqeeze off 100 rounds without a hiccup in 1/2" groupings over 100 yards.

cheapest, most accurate and deadly "pistol" i own, no doubt.

a lil excessive... but it's actually legal for me to conceal it (and easier now- going into winter) with my permit most states don't allow pistols with a forward mag tho...

i know what youre saying- but the point of the concealed permit is to legally carry it without other ppl's knowledge. it's actually legal for most anyone to carry a gun on their hip, in plain view, as long as it isnt considered "brandishing."

and i understand that i will most likely (and hopefully) never use a gun on anyone. BUT i would have a hard time living with myself if there happened to be a mass shooting and i was ill prepared.

just a few months ago, some student from congo or some shit was planning a columbine scenario at my school. his roommates turned him in and the police found 3 ak-47s, thousands of rounds, explosive devices, and tons of underground footage of homicides, etc.
if just ONE of the teachers or students during the v-tech shooting had a gun- he coulda at least kept that asian dude down long enough for the police to arrive if not ended the whole deal

maybe a better idea would be for schools to have security cops around at all times.

Wow, how amazing you got your "facts" from anti gun control groups.

Maybe if you didn't feel so inferior about yourself, you wouldn't need to carry a gun, to feel powerful.

so you completely ignored these two?

(35) Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau , reported in San Antonio Express - News, September, 2000

(37) Florida Department of State , “Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report”, 1998 – Florida Game and Fresh Water Fish Commission, December 1998

or are you insinuating that these are anti gun control groups?

Amazing, the "facts" that support your claim that people who own guns, stop crime, are from a pro gun group.

why do you assume it's to feel powerful, or that someone carries a gun b/c they feel inferior?


do you not have a spare tire in your car, or a fire extenguisher in your home?

it's something you hope you never HAVE to use, but if you need it you'll be damn glad you had it.



your remarks are very naive.

No one uses a tire, or fire extinguisher for sport, or fun, or kill things. Don't even compare the two. Anyone who "needs" to carry a gun with them at all time, is clearly compensating for some perceived inadequacy.

the 2nd FACT i listed showed the exact same data and was reported by the Texas Department of Public Safety.

and it doesn't say that these people "stop crime", it says that they are LESS LIKELY THAN THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO COMMIT CRIMES.

you should do less typing and more reading...

LMAO your logic is so flawed...

the people who LEGALLY carry guns aren't the type of people who are just waiting for the chance to gun someone down as you'd like to think. it's the people who aren't willing to allow themselves to become victims of circumstance.... just the same reason people have spare tires and fire extenguishers, etc...

AZFit....clearly these children are being killed by illegal aliens carrying unlicensed guns.

I think alot of them, including you, secretly think of themselves as Dirty Harry. My logic isn't flawed at all, im just not a coward who needs a gun to feel safe.

But if PJLLama was there with his assault rifle, clearly he'd gun down those illegally gun toting Illegal Aliens.

what GAME are you talking about? this whole thread is about someone using the legally carried firearm to defend their personal safety...

as for your facts, your statistic includedes “children” up to age 19 or 24, (depending on the source). Since most violent crime is committed by males ages 16-24, these numbers include adult gang members dying during criminal activity(99)

(incidentally, ‘child’ is defined by Webster as a person between birth and puberty,
typically 13-14 years).

(99) FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1997

hilarious!

well, if you feel safe leaving your safety up to the government... that's your choice. just stating that the post that started this thread would have turned out much differently if it had been you driving that car...

so b/c they were 18 your little argument is flawed.

they were criminals ingaged in violent activities. they died as a result of it. yay for society, now lets take away the guns of those members of society NOT engaged in illegal activity.

how about you put together an argument that is based on reason and logic instead of fear and ignorance... and preferably one that i can't punch a hole in in less than a minute.

Thanks for explaining why my aunt and grandmother are gun owners.

wow. first of all, that is absolutely terrible grammar.

second, you're implying people own/carry guns because they feel inferior?


if anyone on this site has reason to feel inferior, for any reason, it's you. you have a horribly pathetic physique and you come online to argue with people you'll never meet?

do i remember you saying you're some kind of strength training coach?? and you're how old?

Having problems posting here for some reason

40 Reasons for Gun Control


15. "The Constitution is strong and will never change." But we should ban and seize all guns thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments to that Constitution.

16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense! Of course, the army has hundreds of thousands of them.

17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they aren't "military weapons", but private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles", because they are military weapons.

18. In spite of waiting periods, background checks, finger printing, government forms, etc., guns today are too readily available, which is responsible for recent school shootings. In the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's, anyone could buy guns at hardware stores, army surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, Sears mail order, no waiting, no background check, no fingerprints, no government forms and there were no school shootings.

19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, but the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.

20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.

21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.

22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."

23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.

24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.

25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.

26. Any self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."

27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.

28. The right of Internet pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.

29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self-defense only justifies bare hands.

30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.

31. Charlton Heston, a movie actor as president of the NRA is a cheap lunatic who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas, a movie actor as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.

32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.

33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.

34. Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over hand guns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.

35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.

36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.

37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people. The police need assault weapons. You do not.

38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good.

39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon.

40. Handgun Control, Inc. says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands." Guess what? You have the wrong hands.

I agree completely. I used to hunt when I was a kid and my father and I have both owned guns in the past. I don't think guns should be illegal or completely taken away from everyone....I just think it should be extremely hard to get one. There's only one purpose to a gun, and that's to destroy whatever it's pointed at...gotta make sure folks are properly vetted before handing them one, that's all.

I live in New York City and have never thought to myself "If only I had a gun right now...." Except of course while I'm at work.

Sounds familiar......

How is amy argument flawed? My argument was that thousands of innocent people die every year from gunfire, we have by far the highest death rate of any industrialized country due to primarily firearm deaths. That was my argument, what does it matter what age the victims are?

So lets make the problem worse by adding more guns to the area?

What is wrong with my grammar? What does grammar, or physique, or my age have anything to do with the fact that, no one needs an assualt rifle for any reason, other than to feel powerful. I don't have a pathetic hpysiqe, and yes I am a strength coach. But what does any of that have to do with this argument? I'm 6' 200lbs at 8% body fat, if my physique is terrible, than so is yours.

While its true, you can kill someone with any of those objects, its alot easier to kill with a gun. Just look at the homicide rate in the US compared to any other industralized nation.

and now name a single other nation you'd rather live in...

Correlation is Not Causation... even someone with your diminished intellectual capacity knows that. (or at least should)

that's pretty much what i was getting at. the united states allows many social liberties that other countries do not and the right to own a gun is a specific provision of our constitution.

this freedom is what makes our country the best in the world- but obviously not without some negatives/ consequences. individual liberty v. public safety

Where is that coming from?

Bill of RIGHTS buddy, not Bill of Necessities.

Yes very true except we're the only nation that embeds fear 24/7

The local news, the record industry, the security systems

It has more to do with our society then it does with guns

so, the issue is assault rifles now? the use of assault rifles make up a fraction of the total gun crimes in the US. additionally, the few assault rifles that are used illegally arrive in the US through transnational organized crime rings and will fall into the hands of gang members no matter what statutes our country imposes pertaining to gun control.

and 200lbs @ 8% now? i'll take your word for it.