conventional, is this
Deadlift Article |
1Fast400 Forums > Power Lifting |
| Posted by: Succio Mar 28 2007, 12:42 PM |
| good stuff in there http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-044-training |
| Posted by: JW32Hoops Mar 28 2007, 01:09 PM |
| Great article. The other article they link in the beginning is great too. When it comes to form, I noticed I've been angling my feet outwards a bit and my legs bend that way too, kinda bowlegged like a frog almost. Is that OK? |
| Posted by: Succio Mar 28 2007, 01:14 PM | ||
i assume you're pulling sumo? yea your feet are suppose to be pointin outwards a bit. |
| Posted by: JW32Hoops Mar 28 2007, 01:31 PM |
| I don't know what "pulling sumo" is. I've only started deadlifting a month ago. I feel like I use my back a bit more than my legs, but other than that, it feels OK. What is the difference b/w "sumo" and "regular" deadlifting? Thanks |
| Posted by: Succio Mar 28 2007, 01:54 PM |
| sumo is when your pulling in a wide stance conventional, is this |
| Posted by: Jason2459 Mar 28 2007, 02:07 PM |
| @ kdkdkdkdkdkdkdk Skimmed through the article and so for it seems pretty good. @JW Sumo: http://www.weighttrainersunited.com/sumo.html http://ironscene.com/view_video.php?viewkey=9f72eaec1b6444b22ea9 http://ironscene.com/view_video.php?viewkey=b8f4b843ee2adaaa91cc Conventional: http://www.weighttrainersunited.com/convdeadlift.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tOxtGCrx4s |
| Posted by: JW32Hoops Mar 28 2007, 02:08 PM |
| My feet aren't as far apart as the sumo picture, but they bend outward. |
| Posted by: Tyler43769 Mar 28 2007, 08:48 PM |
| ya ive seen that called frog style ive seen some big guys use it they squat down and grab the bar inside their legs and they just look like a frog |
| Posted by: unstable Mar 28 2007, 10:40 PM |
| ... |
| Posted by: Vadha Man Apr 2 2007, 10:09 AM | ||
I like the conventional way, i think i would be too afraid to try it the sumo way with the risk of injuring my back. |
| Posted by: SFW_SFW May 2 2007, 01:00 AM |
| best shit ive ever read... thanks i prefer conventional too, |
| Posted by: Jason2459 May 2 2007, 08:12 AM | ||
The sumo stance has a LOT less preasure on the lower back and hits the hips/glutes a lot more. Sumo has many advantages over conventional. Less strain on the lower back, easier to maintain a tight arch in the lower back, and less distance to pull. The thing is with sumo is that it does require a lot of hip/glut/ham strength because that is where the preasure is. Also, why more people don't use sumo is that it requires a very precise technique to lift heavy. When doing light weight it is really easy to keep form but when going heavy everything usually goes to crap for most any lift. Sumo requires a lot of technique and if you don't have the form down on the heaviest of lifts, you'll miss very very easily. With conventional if your form slips a little it's a lot easier to pull yourself back together. With sumo it's all over witih. A person could hit a PR of 500 one day then struggle with 400 later on because the form is off. |
| Posted by: Succio Apr 13 2008, 04:51 PM |
| bump |
| Posted by: Will109090 Apr 30 2008, 11:11 PM |
| Great article. Can't wait to start deadlifting again. I'm going to go real light for about 2-3 weeks starting this Friday. I'm doing FB workouts on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays since I'm trying to cut right now. But Fridays will mainly consist of deadlifts and DB shoulder presses. |
| Posted by: JW32Hoops Apr 30 2008, 11:55 PM |
"I don't know what 'pulling sumo' is"  Hahaha...so funny to see my posts from a year ago when I didn't know ass about deadlifting. I've since gone all sumo, all the way. Legs as wide as the plates, over/under grip, hands inside stance. |
| Posted by: willpiazza31 May 1 2008, 08:53 AM |
| that's cause you're a faggot pussy noob -goodskie & typerob |
| Posted by: Jason2459 May 2 2008, 09:19 AM | ||
-Doogsy |
| Posted by: cc-10 May 2 2008, 07:10 PM |
| Solutions: Speed pulls are your best friend. Start with as little as 40% 1RM initially, but work in the 50-60% range for the vast majority of the time. Going to 70% is pushing it, but it's been done. Some lifters have found that conventional plyometric exercises can help, although I don't feel they hold a candle to speed pulls from a specificity standpoint. sounds like something i should be doing what about hitting some rack pulls then finishing off w/ some speed pulls next week? any ideas on how to do speed pulls I take it fewer time between sets than between heavier weight.... |
| Posted by: yeashescool May 2 2008, 09:03 PM |
| i think its just banging out reps reall quick, while maintaining good form tho |
| Posted by: Jason2459 May 2 2008, 09:25 PM |
| DE work is all about speed with yes proper form. DE work is also done with very few reps. Typical DE work would depending on the percentages is around 10 sets with 2 reps each. Here's a good video of a DE DL session by Derek Wilcox a 165lbs elite lifter. Notice there is a quick reset between reps. It's not touch and go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INdj26homNA |
| Posted by: unstable May 6 2008, 07:47 PM |
| I'm not a fan of speed work for the deadlift, but each his own. I think the speed work for the squat will translate somewhat to the deadlift. I can't speak for anyone else but with speed pulls I have a tendency of fucking up my whole shit |
| Posted by: Jason2459 May 6 2008, 08:24 PM | ||
I really liked high pulls a lot and really helped create a lot of explosiveness. I just noticed how my deadlift has changed after doing those and watching my last meets videos. I seem to coil up and explode now a lot more then I did before. I picked up doing high pulls after watching the Bolton DVD. He likes to warm up with high pulls before going into his sq/dl day. http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/HighPull.html |
| Posted by: unstable May 7 2008, 07:41 PM |
| Just from a discussional / theoretical standpoint, I have to wonder how effective high pulls are. I mean, the first half of the movement, yes. It's essentially a speed pull. But what good is the last half where you rip the barbell up higher? Maybe if you were an olympic lifter. I am still a big proponent of doing lots of stiff legged deadlifts and DL's off of boxes using light to moderate weight. It builds ridiculous starting strength. The problem is when you get to that point of somehow being stronger off of the floor than at the end when you have better leverages...it's really bizarre, but that's what happened to me right around the 600 lbs. mark. SLDL's, Boxes, SLDL's off boxes, hyper extensions and Zercher squats are the staples of a strong deadlift imo. |
| Posted by: Jason2459 May 8 2008, 05:35 AM | ||
I definitely agree with dl w/ an offset, the zerchers, sldl, pull throughs.... etc are awesome for the DL. High pulls are just another thing to put in the arsenal. I like them more for a warm up then anything else. They are very dynamic and they hit my traps pretty good as well because of the shrug at top. Which is good for the lock out as well. If anything it is more of a ballistic plyo movement like box jumping except it actually is more in line with the movement of the dl. |
| Posted by: unstable May 8 2008, 11:29 AM |
| again, when I think about the deadlift...I have to wonder how much the traps are involved. When you are holding the weight in your hands, the traps are not really in a contracted position, if anything they are stretched. When you deadlift, yes it does hit your traps but not in the same way that shrugs or high pulls do. When you deadlift, you are not trying to shrug the weight up...in fact, to try to would just be increasing the distance that you have to pull the weight. So that's my issue or theoretical problem with shrugs and high pulls to assist the deadlift. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way,but it just doesn't seem to make sense. |
| Posted by: Jason2459 May 8 2008, 12:34 PM |
| I see the shrugs and upper back assistance helping out the lockout and thats about it. |
| Posted by: cc-10 May 16 2008, 06:18 PM | ||||
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| Posted by: Jason2459 May 18 2008, 07:25 AM |
| Doing light deadlifts with speed once a week is great for getting some consistant form. Only problem is once you hit heavier weights your form is more then likely to break down. On the other hand I wouldn't do them heavy every week either. Some people do and can. I've done it before and it sucks. In 5 weeks my body was ready to completely shutdown. I was doing heavy squats and heavy deads every week. Typically I'll do some form of deadlift every two to three weeks going really heavy. The other weeks I'll do some form of really heavy GM or Squat. I'm starting to train the deadlift every week for speed going really light. I can keep that pace up for a good 8-12 weeks before I need to deload or take it easy for about a week. |
| Posted by: cc-10 Jun 10 2008, 02:15 PM |
| ive been switching off...one week rack deads next week regular deads..next week speed deads just to have things switched up is this how speeds are suppose to be like? 135x5 185x5 185x5 185x5 225x5 225x5 225x5 245x3 245x3 245x2 pretty much 10-15 secs between sets |
| Posted by: willpiazza31 Jun 10 2008, 02:26 PM |
| Why are you doing speed deads? |
| Posted by: cc-10 Jun 10 2008, 02:34 PM |
| switch things up and it sounds cool ....i figured if power lifters did them from time to time it would have to be good for yah...i figured once every three weeks would be alright |
| Posted by: Succio Jun 10 2008, 05:28 PM |
| I do speed dead just for singles or doubles at the most. and you should get atleast a 30 second rest. do them for 8-9 sets. |
| Posted by: cc-10 Jun 10 2008, 09:25 PM |
| so that means im going to light then? |
| Posted by: Succio Jun 10 2008, 09:27 PM | ||
you should be going around 50-60% of your max deadlift. |
| Posted by: cc-10 Jun 11 2008, 10:25 AM | ||||
my max is 365, so around 185...but that seems really easy for singles and double for that many sets |
| Posted by: willpiazza31 Jun 11 2008, 10:38 AM |
| Speed work is supposed to be easy. |
| Posted by: cc-10 Jun 11 2008, 11:20 AM |
| really what's it for then explosiveness? |
| Posted by: willpiazza31 Jun 11 2008, 11:22 AM |
| You are doing something you know nothing about? Just forget the speed work and just pyramid your deads. 10,8,6,4,3-1 or something like that. Get straps too. |
| Posted by: cc-10 Jun 11 2008, 02:40 PM |
| lol i thought i knew what i was doing when i read the article |