Thought about stacking mass fx and BAM but after looking at the ingredients they seemed almost similar. Just wanted to see what you guys thought. Also if i took BAM what would be the best to stack it withl, hyperdrol or jungle warfare?

Yes, BAM and MassFX are similar products and probably shouldn't be stacked. Should you choose to though I would only take half the recommended dose of each. AS for stacking with either Hyperdrol or Jungle Warfare, it's best to stack with the product from the corresponding manufacturer. So MassFX and Hyperdrol stack and BAM and Jungle Warfare.

You could interchange them though and probably be ok though.

Bad Ass Mass and Mass FX both contain 6-keto-diosgenin, which is a wild yam extract. Mass FX throws in an inconsequential amount of nettle root extract along with 6,7,dyhydroxybergamotin and Bioperine which supposedly make the supplement more bioavailable. Ultimately, the amount of active ingredient, 6-keto-diosgenin, is unknown in both Bad Ass Mass and Mass FX. I also think Bad Ass Mass has the 7-keto-diosgenin analogue thrown in, but I can't really determine this as ALRI is famous for trying to disguise their 'chemical' ingredients.

As far as effectivness, I haven't really observed any unbiased anecdotes for either of them. Both ALRI and AX are known for having an enormous propaganda network on bodybuilding forums and most of the positive reviews seem to be overwhelmingly placebo or brown-nosing; or a combination of both.

In conclusion, neither Mass FX nor Bad Ass Mass probably have an appreciable amount of active ingredient to elicit the desired adaptogenic/anabolic effect. No human studies exist on wild yam which point to it being androgenic in the least, in fact the opposite (estrogenic). As far as Hyperdrol is concerened, and indeed most products released by AX, is a hyped up supplement (in this case Cissus quad.) with a giant pricetag - pimped exhaustively by e-reps and brownnosers.

Personally, I have been using Jungle Warfare and Bad Ass Mass for the last two weeks with zero noticeable results. I'm sure an e-thug will chime in that it takes 2 months or so before the effects become observable exc., and this indeed may be the case, but I'm not willing to pay another 60 dollars + to find out. And honestly, I'm thinking about trying Hi-Tech's OxyBolin 250 which (stupid name aside) contains 250 mg of ecdysterone, turkesterone, and ponasterone along with 400 mg of 6-keto-diosgenin, 7-keto-diosgenin, DHEA, and supps to support bioavailability. Though the amount of diosgenin analogues may be slightly lower than that of Mass FX or Bad Ass Mass, the addition of ecdysterone would be similar to an E-bol stack, only less expensive.

Mass FX contains 1g of nettle root extract 3,4divan.. so far from being an inconsequential amount. The hype that surrounds both products is astonishing but is no surprise. I must say I'm intrigued by some of the logs but the problem is they are all sponsored logs and prone to a bit of bias.

It sucks to hear that the ALRI stack hasn't worked for you as I was thinking of running it since it's cheaper. Maybe it'll kick in all of a sudden, who knows. Let us know or at least let me know how the product turns out.

Kevin here from AX to clear this up. But any further questions you can feel free to check out the AX forum and talk directly to Dr.D. First off thanks for the interest in Mass FX.

1. 25R-diol is dosed at 1 gram per day (4 caps)

2. The 95% 3,4 DVTH (nettle lignan) is dosed at 1 gram per day (4 caps). 1 gram per day is the optimal amount for the 95% extract. Mass FX was designed by Dr.D who designed and discovered the 3,4 Lignan over a year ago.

3. Mass FX does not contain 6-keto-diosgenin. 25R-diol is not 6-keto-diosgenin. You can learn a little more in the below write-up link. Although related they are not the same making a big difference in terms of results. You would have to ask Dr.D for further details. But we are the only company using (at this time) the 25R-diol synth. 6-keto-diosgenin has been around for a while.

http://forum.anabolicx.com/index.php?showt...832&hl=official

Hopefully that clears this up. If any of you decide to try it and are not happy. Just contact us. We 100% stand behind our products.

That PDF reminds me of the 17-HD write-up.

Actually it was the 17-Hydroxy-mesterone product from IDS:

"A Natural Stimulator Of Muscle Mass, Strength And Sex Drive!
IDS 17 Hydroxy-Mesterone is a raw material hydrolyzed from the "genus" smilax, which you may be familiar with because it's been marketed in the United States as a natural anabolic for over 20 years! Anabolic components of the smilax plant called Dioscins are hydrolyzed (Hydrolyzation is the rearranging of carbon and oxygen molecules in the compound structure) to produce diosgenins. Diosgenins are the actual steroid like components of smilax that have been used for years as a raw material "starting point" for pharmaceutical companies making anabolic steroids.

Historically synthetic testosterone was created from the yam plant after discovering the hormonal structure of the yam plant was virtually identical to human testosterone. However, conclusive scientific data shows that the natural steroid Diosgenins of smilax attach to androgen receptors over 300% more efficiently than the yam, meaning more androgen receptors are occupied, thus allowing for much faster protein turnover. In addition to Hydroxylation, 17 Hydroxy-Mesterone has had two sugar molecules cleaved off to greatly reduce the production of Aromatase, which is the enzyme that converts testosterone into estrogen. If estrogen levels increase, hard lines disappear leaving a swollen bloated physique. As a result, 17 Hydroxy-Mesterone not only gets you extremely big... it also gets you extremely shredded as well!"

Uh oh, IDS, in its incredible wisdom and organic chemistry genius, already discovered this junk.

I am not sure where you negativity comes from I am not going to argue with you.

1. 25R-diol does not come from a yam. Are you doing research or just posting whatever comes into your head?

2. 25R-diol is not even remotely similar to what is in 17-HD or the IDS prodcut.

3. Dr.D wrote the pdf and I am sorry you did not find it suitable.

There are 1000's of Diosgenins and Sapogenins. Just like there are 1000's of possible steroid structures. Some work and some don't. Over the last year we have researched the sapogenin in Mass FX and out of the 1000's we believe this is THE one. In over the 100 logs we are currently tracking online we have seen no one gain less than 4lbs (in 4 weeks) and up to 17 (lbs). The average seems to be around 5-7. For a natural product that is absolutely amazing. If you want to try it, buy it. If it does not work and your not happy get a refund from us. It's easy. We are not the company that tries to BS people with a hyped up product that does not work. Everything we have released works and will continue to be that way.

Kevin, your post wreaks of vitalistic undertones. It doesn't matter where the molecule came from, and "dr"d would be able to explain this to you in simpler terms if you'd like.

I'm curious, after viewing a few molecules via pubmed, how your organic molecule differs from that of other diosgenins including but not limited to 17-HD, or IDS's product, and how this modulates ligand potentail on the AR (i'm assuming) or whether it's an overall adatogenic effect? Or don't you know? Surely "dr"d knows since he "invented" it.

TheDiesel

This is my last post on this topic as I am not here to argue with you. You can feel free to engage Dr.D on the topic over at our forums if you please.

1. You are very wrong about the source of the material not mattering. The source is extremely important in terms of extraction potency and quality. I am sure Dr.D can explain this to you in similar terms if you like

2. As per how the molecule differs I am not an expert on what IDS has. Our ingredient is completely posted on the label. Feel free to look at it and compare. They are not even close and I only have one chem class under my belt. I do not know if IDS has a good product or not. I can only speak for the 25R in Mass FX. That is like holding up 1-AD and 5-AD and saying they are the same.....????

3. Finally you keep referencing Dr.D. You can feel free to discuss whatever you like with him. We encourage it and have a forum dedicated to consumers interacting with him. If you have technical questions that is the place for it. I have not once seen a question that he has not answered about Mass FX, 25R-diol, etc.

Look we have nothing to hide. We have released a natural compound that works very well. No other company is using this synth. Not one.

You keep posting statements that are blatantly wrong yet you are stating them like facts? I will recap them for you.

1. Contains 6-keto-diosgenin (wrong)
2. Contains inferior amounts of 3,4 DVTH (wrong)
3. Contains the same "junk" as the IDS prodcut (not even close)
4. Extractions sources do not matter (very very wrong)

I have been cordial and friendly but it is obvious when someone is on a witch hunt without even have their facts together. So you know where you can go if you really want technical answers to your questions. Have a great day.

The the only question i have is which is better Mass FX or Bad Ass MAss cuz im planning to take one of them and woundering which will pack on more of the mass?

you're asking the massfx rep which you should buy?

im gunna go out on a limb and say he's gunna say massfx

Maxx Fx and Hyperdrol are OK. They'll work for sure and add some strength, size, etc...but you can get other stuff cheaper. Jungle Warfare is good. Leviathan/Incarnate are good. Heard good things about RPM/Drive too, although I haven't tried that one personally yet.

Things that actually WORK to add lean mass/strength. Proven time and time again. I know it's been said before, but damnit, it needs to be said again!

In order of importance.

1. Eating lots of food. The cleaner the better. Read a book on it.
2. LOTS of rest. Take a nap or two, you might be surprised.
3. Lifting HEAVY objects repeatedly, in a progressive nature.
4. .05% of naturally occurring substances. Like creatine.
5. Hormones. This is optional.

The first three are necessary. If you're not gaining muscle, then you're not doing one of the first three right.

Almost everything else is just for personal amusement, and buying someone a very expensive car (no, not you). I've taken a lot of snake oil, and paid my fair share to Big Supplement, but I've never taken anything (non-hormonal) and gained magical amounts of muscle. Get used to it. It will save you money, so maybe YOU can buy an expensive car some day!

Diesel is right on.

Never underestimate the placebo effect! It can affect you too!

sometimes that placebo effect is all it takes for some of these guys to bust it in the gym...