What are other good supplements I can run along side to combat side effects?

Red Yeast Rice- A fermented rice product, that is our best fighter against negative sides form AAS concerning cardiovascular damage. Comprised of nine different monacolins, which are naturally occurring substances that help regulate cholesterol levels. Along with sterols, and monounsaturated fatty acids, it packs a strong punch.
Dosage : 1.2g ED

COQ10- Although this is abundant in food sources, I feel it prudent to put on here. Not only does it show to help cardiac function, but it’s also imperative to be used with Red Yeast Rice. Can be used in combination with other cholesterol lowering supplements.

Celery Seed- A powerful anti-oxidant, shown to not only lower blood pressure, but may have cancer fighting properties as well. And there is evidence to show its ability in aiding the liver.

Hawthorne Berry: Also very useful to lower BP and keep it on check. A great on cycle supplement.
Dosage 1000mg ed on cycle.

Policosanol- A blend of fatty alcohol’s, shows great promise in its use as beneficial to cardiovascular health, to include the maintenance of healthy lipid profiles. There is also some theory to a synergistic affect with EFA’s.
Dosage : 20mg 2x a day

Saw Palmetto: The prostrate is one delicate part of your system that you do not want to affect under any circumstances.
SP @ 320mg/day

Primaforce ProLiver or Liv52.
Sesathin

***These supplements are very necessary ON cycle as well as in the PCT.***

My cycle is over, I have to keep my gains, how do I do it.
If you want to keep your gains, make sure you take nolvadex. You will lose a little bloat/size due to water retention. Its good to take creatine and nitrous based compounds or cell volumisers at this point to keep your gains.

I had a very satisfying cycle, my pct made me recover fine, I want to get back into another cycle.
Well,this is something I've seen in many people, the temptation to use m1t and superdrol. Sure it does give good results, but you've gotta understand that you have a life apart from bbing. Make sure you give the length of the cycle + PCT x2 for recovery between cycles. If your cycle was 3 weeks, pct was three weeks then atleast 12 weeks (3+3=6x2=12). After all you've got just one liver to use for a lifetime.

Is 6oxo and Rebound XT good enough by itself for a superdrol PCT, most people say it is enough
No! By no means is 6oxo or Rebound standalone strong enough to restart the test production in your body. You need a SERM! Period!

Give me a sample PCT.

wk1: 40mg Nolva, 600 6oxo, 3 fenugreek caps, DHEA 200mg
wk2: 40mg Nolva, 600 6oxo, 4 fenugreek caps, DHEA 200mg
wk3: 20mg Nolva, 300 6oxo, 5 fenugreek caps, DHEA 100mg
wk4: 10mg Nolva, 300 6oxo, 6 fenugreek caps, DHEA 100mg

Nolvadex is therefore ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for an superdrolcycle. Please note its Nolvadex not novedex or nolvedex. Please look for Tamoxifen Citrate.
You can also use Clomid, some users feel this is good as clomid does a lot of good to your lipid profile.

Sample Clomid PCT

Day 1- 300mg
Week 1- 100mg
Week 2- 75mg
Week 3- 50mg

Clomid has worked excellently for me therefore I stop it in 3 weeks. It takes care of any testicular atrophy that may arise on cycle. Please do not use clomid for prolonged periods of time, it is detrimental.

I do not know where to get the necessary supplements/ chems for my PCT.
Please do not ask on the forums for sources. I will try to help you through secure mail or pm’s. READ! Most experienced users in their logs mention the brands of nolva they use, if some just had the sense to google them……………

What are the important things I should know about Research Chemicals?

15.2 grams of Tamoxifen Citrate equal 10mg of Tamoxifen (nolvadex)
If a research Liquid manufactuer were unaware of this, and they suspend 10mg of Tamoxifen Citrate in 1 ml of solution and claimed a dosage of 10mg of Tamoxifen/ml then it would be underdosed to the tabs.

Of course if they claimed 10mg of Tamoxifen and added 15.2 grams of Tamoxifen citrate then they would be giving the correct dose of then 10mg of Tamox/ml relative to the tabs.

If they say 10mg of Tamoxifen citrate there not lying about the dose, it's jus not as much as the 10mg tabs of nolvadex.

NOLVADEX_ (tamoxifen citrate) Tablets, a nonsteroidal antiestrogen, are for oral administration. NOLVADEX Tablets are available as:

10 mg Tablets. Each tablet contains 15.2 mg of tamoxifen citrate which is equivalent to 10 mg of tamoxifen.

20 mg Tablets. Each tablet contains 30.4 mg of tamoxifen citrate which is equivalent to 20 mg of tamoxifen.

So whatz the math?
0.5ml= 7mg tamoxifen
1.0ml=14mg
1.5ml=21mg
2.0ml=28mg
2.5ml=35mg
3.0ml=42mg
3.5ml=49mg
4.0ml=56mg
4.5ml=63mg
5.0ml=70mg

I am not a doctor and neither do my opinions construe medical advice. These are just my views after using and researching about this product and answering a number of queries from users who were as confused as me when I first started it.

Bet many of you here are well aware that you defenitely need a PCT after a cycle of something hormonal like 1AD, 1-T, m1t, m5 or even SD. There are any number of threads that tell you to take nolva, 6oxo, clomid, R-Xt. This thread is dedicated for those who are really interested to know why someone asks you to do that PCT and what exactly happens to your body during a PCT.

So why do I need to take all this stuff after my cycle?
During a cycle of AAS, natural production of testosterone decreases, often times to zero. In many cases, the diminished natural testosterone production causes a cessation of sperm production (spermatogenesis), and the male becomes sterile. After the cycle, the body's ability to make testosterone may take months to start again. Aside from the undesirable sterility and loss of strength, other hormone levels get out of whack because of the low testosterone, and cause other problems such as increased body fat and depression. The body produces many hormones, and the levels of most hormones are interrelated. This article will examine the factors involved in regulating the production of certain hormones in the body, particularly by the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis

So what's the big deal in taking so many different compounds together?
The ideal post cycle therapy consists of a three compound administration which is designed so that there is a primary and secondary LH stimulator which both are maximizing potential early in the duration;
With the addition of an Aromatase Inhibitor, which makes the above possible, the individual will also endure less of an increase in Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, which allows free testosterone levels to reach base line at a much quicker pace. The individual will also see less of a problem in most cases with sexual libido as the bounding SHBG is controlled (to an extent).


Day 1-15 600 MG 6oxo + 100mg Clomid + 40mg Nolva
Day 16-30 300mg 6oxo + 75mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva

Selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too.

Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary
Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs

In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:

1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an AI is not used).
2. If your running a longer PCT, clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of PCT, the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and 6oxo.


So after my PCT what should I expect from my body?

Hormone panel:
Testosterone: normal range 300 - 1200ng/dl
Free testosterone: normal range 8.7 - 25pg/ml
IGF-1: normal range 109-284ng/ml
Estradiol: normal range 5 - 53pg/ml
DHEA-s: normal range 120 - 520ug/dl

Thyroid panel:
T4: normal range 4.5 - 12ug/dl
T3: normal range 2.3 - 4.2pg/ml
TSH: normal range 0.350 - 5.500uIU/ml

Blood Lipid panel:
Total cholesterol: normal healthy range 100 - 199mg/dl
LDL fraction: normal range 0 - 99mg/dl
HDL fraction: normal range 40 - 59mg/dl
Triglycerides: normal range 0 - 149mg/dl
C-reactive protein: > 2mg/l increased risk of MI and stroke
Homocysteine: normal range 6.3 - 15umol/L

Liver function:
Alkaline phosphatase: Normal range 25 - 150IU/L
GGT: normal range 0 - 65IU/L
SGOT: normal range 0 - 40IU/L
SGPT: normal range 0-40IU/L
PSA: normal 0.0 - 4.0ng/ml

Renal function tests:
Creatinine: normal 0.5 - 1.5mg/dl
BUN: normal range 5 - 26mg/dl
Creatinine/BUN ratio: normal 8 - 27

What else can I take with all my ancillaries for a good PCT
Tribulus, ZMA are good to add on a PCT. Ideally you want to start these in the beginning of week 2 when the natural test levels are catching up.

I am not a doctor neither do I give medical advise.I just post what I have researched and obtained. If I am wrong please feel free to correct me.Thx

So everyone tells me my HTPA is gonna get messed up, what does it mean?

Endogenous Testosterone
Where is testosterone made in the body? Well, about 95% is produced in the testicles, in special cells called "interstitial cells" or Leydig cells. These cells surround cells in the seminiferous tubules, called Sertoli cells, whose function is to produce sperm. Spermatogenesis in the Sertoli cells requires testosterone, and when endogenous testosterone diminishes, then sperm production stops (and you end up with raisins). Bear in mind that Leydig cells and Sertoli cells are in close proximity to each other. Therefore, the testosterone concentration is high, relative to the concentration in the bloodstream. Sertoli cells require high testosterone concentration for the sperm cells to begin the maturation process. So, even though you might have "a lot" of exogenous testosterone when on-cycle, the concentration is not high enough at the Sertoli cells to promote spermatogenesis because the Leydig cells have shut down. This, combined with a lack of Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH), renders many men sterile during a cycle.

The "Axis"
Hang on a minute, the Leydig cells shut down? Why? How?

Well, the short answer is, "hormones". Hormones are the body's way of sending signals, or information from one part of the body to another. In a computer, electrons (electricity) act as the signal; in the body (which doesn't have wires!), the signals must be sent with chemicals, and that is the role of hormones. The term "HPT Axis" refers to the interaction of the hypothalamus, pituitary, and testes (there are other axes as well). For the Leydig cells, Luteinizing hormone (LH) is released from the pituitary and it signals the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. Similarly, the pituitary releases FSH, and it tells the Sertoli cells to make sperm (as well as androgen-binding-protein). The pituitary is a gland that produces and stores a number of hormones, under the control of the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus decides how the body's organs should operate, and the pituitary gives the actual "orders" to the target organs. Some of the "signaling" hormones made or stored in the pituitary are:

Growth Hormone
IGF-I and IGF-II
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)
Vasopressin (or Antidiuretic hormone)
Luteininzing Hormone (LH)
Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH)
Adrenocorticotropic Hormone (ACTH)

The hypothalamus and the pituitary are very close together, and are located at the base of the brain. Just as the pituitary uses hormones to signal the target organ (testes, thyroid, etc) to do something, the hypothalamus uses other hormones to signal the pituitary to do its job. Some of these "Hypothalamic Releasing Factors" are (along with the pituitary hormones affected):

Hypothalamic Hormone: Regulates:
Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone LH, FSH
Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone GH
Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone TSH
Corticotropin Releasing Hormone ACTH

But how does the hypothalamus know when its commands have been carried out? By what's called a "feedback loop". Just as a General relies on reports from the field, the hypothalamus must monitor the results of its commands. The hypothalamus has sensors (receptors) to determine the levels of the chemicals (hormones) produced by the target organs. For our purposes, we will examine only one feedback loop, the one involving the testes.

The hypothalamus has both androgen receptors and estrogen receptors. When the level of either hormone gets too high, the receptors become more highly activated, and the hypothalamus stops sending Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone to the pituitary. The pituitary, in turn, stops sending LH and FSH to the testes. Thus, the signal is, "stop producing testosterone (and sperm)". We know that androgens (and NOT just estrogen) stop the action of the testes because exogenous DHT by itself (which cannot convert to estrogen) is very effective at shutting down the testes. A schematic of the HPTA (and other glands) is shown below. Note that the other glands are involved in feedback mechanism also.

What does the estrogen/androgen feedback loop mean to bodybuilders? It means that, when using exogenous androgens, the hypothalamus is very effectively signaled (by binding to the AR's on the hypothalamus) that there is plenty of androgen, and that the testes should be shut down. As long as the level of exogenous androgen is high enough, no reasonable amount of Clomid (or other estrogen-blocker) will be able to keep the testes functioning. So, the only reason to take Clomid during a cycle is if you are susceptible to gyno, or want to try to reduce the bloating associated with elevated estrogens. Both of these actions take place at sites other than at the hypothalamus.

Awesome informational post here. I have a related question in regard to the use of CoQ10. I've been taking about 100 mg. per day for a while now for general health and also to control blood pressure that has trended high, at times. I found an incredible deal tonight for 400 mg. caps.

MY question is this...Is it appropriate to take one 400 mg. cap every 4 days, to avg. out to the same daily dose I've been using, or is the half life too short to do this? Does the product build up in your system or does it need to be taken daily? Hope to get some clarification on this. Thanks.

this should be a sticky. seriously.

I second that...all these fools need to read this.

This is a very good post from Krzna, thanks for bringing it over here Stephen. I'll sticky it and see if people will use it. The only problem with things being in a sticky is that most people won't read them, but they'll read the latest posts that were bumped to the top and ask the same questions. Why they do that, I don't know. If anything, we can all tell them to "Read the pct dumb questions sticky".

How much Tribulus should I run during PCT, the bottle says 2 pills a day @ 1000mg, is this enough or is it good to go higher with test levels being so low after a cycle?

Also say I'm running 45mg of Nolva a day, at 1ml = 15mg of Nolva, do I spread out the Nolva 3x(every 8 hours) or take it all at once? If all at once do I take it morning, noon, or night?

I've read that taking a SERM and an AI simultaneously can cause a severe estrogen rebound after your PCT that can result in delayed gyno, even if you taper the two.

at what times of the day should i take nolvadex if we are talking about 40 mg or 30 mg?

Nice job taking the time to write all of this out. I definately learned something and Im sure others will as well.

The half life of Nolvadex is 5-7 days, so you really only need to take it once a day.

This is in need of SEVERE updating...