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> 4/ad, what is the best way to cycle
Posted: Feb 23 2004, 01:21 PM
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I'm new to to the use of androgens. I'm 6' 5" and 270 pounds,with about 20-25% body fat.I want to know what is the best way to use these products to lower my body fat levels and boost my muscle mass and density. I use sanns A100 with v12,should I ad 1T with the 4ad and the 6oxo.I take 300mg of the 4ad daily,for about 1 week now.I would like advice on cycling and dosage.
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Posted: Feb 23 2004, 05:29 PM
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I would use 600 mg of the 4-AD, I'm not sure about the dosage for the 1-T, maybe two capsules daily. Run this for 2-3 weeks and then follow with 6-OXO for 2 weeks. Then run another cycle, but increase the dosage, probably 300 mg 1-T and 900 mg 4-AD.

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Posted: Feb 23 2004, 10:13 PM
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Thanks for the info, but how many mg of 6oxo should I take over the two weeks.
As far as my second cycle should I go for two more weeks or longer and since
i'm upping the dosage should I use more of the 6oxo when I come off.

One more ? Can I switch to S1+ for my second cycle or should I stay with A100
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Posted: Feb 24 2004, 02:55 AM
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I stumbled across a very effective means of dosing 4-AD and 6-OXO that you may be interested in.

After buying the 4-AD powder, I used a little scooper (50mg) and started putting it directly in my mouth, swishing it around between my cheeks and under my tongue for 5-10 minutes, and then swallowing it. My original intent was simply to take it orally without having to encapsulate it, but I quickly realized that this stuff was being absorbed through the linings of my mouth as I swished it around. I could feel my blood pressure rise and my hunger INCREASE big-time within 5 minutes of swishing it around.

I had cycled prohormones in pill form many times prior to this(300-600mg/day), but I was TOTALLY unprepared for the dosage I received this way. Apparently, I wasn't eating enough and caused myself to become nautious and hypersensitive. I could barely sit down due to the aggressiveness and hypersensitivity it was causing.

Needless to say, I took it easier on the following days until I realized I just needed to eat more. Once I double my calories from 2000 to 4000, I felt great and much less aggressive. I had to eat every 1-2 hours or I would start getting stomach cramps(growling) from being so hungry.

I ended up doing between 250-750mg/day of 4-AD throughout a 10 week cycle, but looking back I think I did too much. I think 250mg/day would be more than enough if it were dosed every 2 hours at 25mg (100mg at bedtime in Olive, Flax, or Sesame Oil). Obviously, this method probably causes a more wavelike concentration level in the blood when compared to basic oral or transdermal applications, so it must be dosed frequently to maintain blood levels.

It is worth noting that I felt NOTHING from 6-OXO when taking it at 300-600mg/day in pill form during previous recovery cycles, but with my "mouth swishing" dosing method (raw powder) I felt a significant raise in Test levels and managed to keep all but 2 lbs of my gains from the last 10 weeks. Overall, I gained 18 lbs (200 to 218) from a 10-week cycle (25g) of 4-AD and 4 weeks (11g) of 6-OXO, after the 2lb post-cycle loss.

4-ADiol powder has no taste whatsoever, but 6-OXO is a tad bitter. Also, this 2-hour dosing schedule was a bit inconvenient at times, especially at work and during family functions. One simply has to make adjustments for reality during these times...nothing is set in stone. For me, a hardgainer, the effects were far worth the inconvenience.

I don't profess to have any scientific backing to my claims, but I'm a fairly average guy who has experimented with ProHormones over the past year or so, and this is the best method of dosing I have found yet. I've done pills and transdermals before, neither of which came close to the results I saw this time around. The only side effect I noticed, besides increased blood pressure and appetite, was an increase of hair. Oddly, I grew some hair lower on my forehead (lowering my hairline) and seemed to increase thickness on other areas of my body....I didn't expect this at ALL. Also, someone at work asked if I was gaining weight, since 20 lbs in 10 weeks is a lot of growth. Be prepared to buy some new clothes if you aren't already wearing baggy clothing.

Lastly, I've worked out for about 10 years, on and off, but I had been working out continually for the last year prior to doing this cycle. I ate at least 200g of protein per day, and I used a Hypertrophy training program found in the book entitled "Serious Strength Training."

While I am sure this isn't for everyone, I hope the sharing of my experience will benefit you in some way. Good luck reaching your bodybuilding goals!


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Posted: Feb 24 2004, 09:29 PM
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QUOTE (jason18660 @ Feb 23 2004, 10:13 PM)
Thanks for the info, but how many mg of 6oxo should I take over the two weeks.
As far as my second cycle should I go for two more weeks or longer and since
i'm upping the dosage should I use more of the 6oxo when I come off.

One more ? Can I switch to S1+ for my second cycle or should I stay with A100

Refer to the 6-OXO sticky. Unless you are using an absurd amount of androgens or your cycles is 8+ weeks 600 mg of 6-OXO is generally a good starting dose.

I would definitely switch to S1+ for the second cycle.

David Tolson
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Posted: Sep 9 2004, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE (Sir Gain-a-Lot @ Feb 24 2004, 03:55 AM)
I stumbled across a very effective means of dosing 4-AD and 6-OXO that you may be interested in.

After buying the 4-AD powder, I used a little scooper (50mg) and started putting it directly in my mouth, swishing it around between my cheeks and under my tongue for 5-10 minutes, and then swallowing it.  My original intent was simply to take it orally without having to encapsulate it, but I quickly realized that this stuff was being absorbed through the linings of my mouth as I swished it around.  I could feel my blood pressure rise and my hunger INCREASE big-time within 5 minutes of swishing it around. 

I think 250mg/day would be more than enough if it were dosed every 2 hours at 25mg (100mg at bedtime in Olive, Flax, or Sesame Oil). 

It is worth noting that I felt NOTHING from 6-OXO when taking it at 300-600mg/day in pill form during previous recovery cycles, but with my "mouth swishing" dosing method (raw powder) I felt a significant raise in Test levels and managed to keep all but 2 lbs of my gains from the last 10 weeks. 

4-ADiol powder has no taste whatsoever, but 6-OXO is a tad bitter.  Also, this 2-hour dosing schedule was a bit inconvenient at times, especially at work and during family functions.  One simply has to make adjustments for reality during these times...nothing is set in stone.  For me, a hardgainer, the effects were far worth the inconvenience.

I don't profess to have any scientific backing to my claims, but I'm a fairly average guy who has experimented with ProHormones over the past year or so, and this is the best method of dosing I have found yet. 


It looks as though you put the DRY powder in your mouth, and let your own saliva wet it enough to "swish".

This is VERY interesting. I have been doing an intranasal application of the cyclo-4-diol. It seems to work great and I can usually tell it's working within an hour. I am thinking that the cyclodextrin modification might make your "swishing" method work even better (and since the Hydroxypropyl-Beta Cyclodextrin is 10 cents a gram it might be worth it).

I have low test levels naturally and have used AndroGel as a replacement, but when I stopped using it I felt like my test levels were even lower than when I started (VERY low energy, workouts were terrible). Not to mention that the alcohol gel was really hard on my tan (made me peel when I was just a little red).

I am thinking that you could probably get it to absorb better or faster if you swished it with vodka wacko.gif (and maybe a drop or two of peppermint oil). I read that people used to do that with methyl-test to get better absorption many years ago.
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