<br><br>Thanks for everyones feedback.<br><br> does piracetam need choline? |
1Fast400 Forums > Supplements |
| Posted by: eeek Jun 18 2006, 06:52 PM |
| [PRODUCT]912[/PRODUCT] Hi I'm a new comer to this sight.<br>Very nice so far.<br>I've been considering piracetam as it seems to be a good all around'r when one considers the amount of research done on it and bang for the buck.<br><br>I have read that by and large extra choline is needed to avoid complications-<br>Is this true?<br>Don't you get it from dairy and pultery or am I missing something? |
| Posted by: Christoph Jun 19 2006, 01:27 AM |
| No. You can take piracetam without choline. However, taking the two together will be more effective than either alone. Other things to try are Super EPA , and Acetyl-L-Carnitine . I've done lots of reading on choline, and there are many sources: Lecithin, Choline, Alpha-GPC, Choline Citrate , and Choline Bitartrate . I've tried Lecithin - very little choline, choline (the choline and inositol from Now) - works well, and Alpha-GPC - expensive!. I guess I'll try the other forms at some point, but all this experimentation gets costly. |
| Posted by: CDONDICI Jun 19 2006, 11:22 AM |
| I tried piracetam before, and I didn't see much form it. |
| Posted by: Debaser Jun 19 2006, 12:17 PM | ||
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| Posted by: CDONDICI Jun 19 2006, 01:44 PM | ||||
Yea I read you are supposed to take it for a while to see results, I wasn't very good about taking it consistantly. |
| Posted by: eeek Jun 19 2006, 10:21 PM |
| Been looking at that, and into that.<br><br>Suposedly Ginseng is a ok "natural" source- with something like around 1000ppm per a cup. Have had the stuff and it kind of like it. It tastes funky-but not gross funky. <br>It's comparetively a bit more cost effective at 5USD for a half pound of some bulk dried root of the stuff from the food co-op. I originally got some because recently coffie's been making way to jumpy-then I found out that ginseng root is suposed to be good for you as well.<br>Why do things that are suposed to be good for you have such strong taste??<br>Or is it like Conan said: "That wich does not kill me makes me stronger"? <br><br>Thanks for everyones feedback.<br><br> |
| Posted by: dsade Jun 20 2006, 12:41 AM |
| Piracetam can possibly increase acetylcholine receptor density in the hippocampus. It generally increases nerve transmissions, especially between hemispheres. Acetylcholine is one of the primary neurochemicals used to transmit signals between neurons. You MUST supplement with extra choline to fuel this increased demand. If you are after intelligence and/or creativity boost, and do not supplement with Choline, you might just find the opposite effect taking place. I experienced a low-grade headache, confusion, and lack of clarity in thought until I added choline. I would highly suggest it. Choline Bitartrate is the least expensive option. |
| Posted by: dsade Jun 20 2006, 12:43 AM | ||
This is actually a Nietzsche paraphrase. |
| Posted by: eeek Jun 20 2006, 09:47 AM |
| Ah, Let me make sure that my understanding's right that basicly you go through choline faster with piracetam-to counteract this you need a fairly good source of concentrated choline. Which is why a choline supliment is recomended. |
| Posted by: dsade Jun 20 2006, 10:13 AM |
| That is correct. |
| Posted by: Stay Puft Aug 25 2006, 02:38 PM |
| What are the dosing req's for Choline bitartate? |
| Posted by: tknogk Dec 10 2006, 12:20 AM |
| I was wondering how much choline bitartate are like Stay Puft, but also how much Piracetam you use per dose, and how much each dose of both Piracetam and Choline Bitartate last? |
| Posted by: justin8152 Mar 4 2007, 06:18 PM |
| I started taking both piratetam and choline bitartrate a couple weeks ago. While the piractetum is dosed 3 to 4 times per day the choline does not say the same. SO I have only been taking the choline once. After reading though If increased piracetum requires more choline< i am guessing it would be wise to increase the choline as wel to 3 times. does anyone know what the different types of choline are made for and y bitartrate has the cost advantage? ALso is the dosing on the 1fast400 label accurate for both products? thanks |
| Posted by: DoggyBourbon Mar 7 2007, 04:08 PM |
| from everything iv heard choline potentiates piracetam ALOT. Im about to start using choline with me aniracetam to see if it works with that as well. |
| Posted by: black_squirrel Apr 25 2007, 03:17 PM |
| what's the recommended choline to piracetam ratio? I ordered some choline bitartate caps which are 300mg. one of those enough for a day or should i add more? |
| Posted by: rinnt3 May 15 2007, 11:27 AM | ||
*bump* for black_squirrel -- I'd be curious to know the answer as well.I've been on pira for over two weeks and haven't felt a (positive) thing. That was with a 9g per day for 4 days loading phase and at least 1.6g per day consistently for the past two weeks. My current daily stack: ~3.6g piracetam, ~670mg Choline Citrate, and 500 mg Choline Bitrarate. Should I crank the pira up fast or what? I don't want to leave negative feedback for pira if I am doing something wrong. But as far as I can tell, I'm following standard procedures. Help!! |
| Posted by: Dementia Brad Oct 29 2007, 09:51 PM |
| Has anyone experimented with how many Chlorine dosages they should take during the day? What generated the best results? |
| Posted by: Dementia Brad Oct 29 2007, 10:43 PM |
| Also what kind of choline should you take? is there a difference between all the different types? |
| Posted by: Doogsy Oct 30 2007, 04:11 AM | ||||
Yea i never really felt anything while taking it. I guess ill have to be more dedicated when taking it! |
| Posted by: Jason97 Jun 29 2008, 06:36 PM |
| Every day that goes by, I'm becoming more and more enamoured with my new love: Piracetam! Because rather than tolerance making the doses less effective, I am finding them to last longer and longer. At first I would start getting a bit of mental tiredness about one hour before the next dose (I admit stretching the doses over way too long a time period - 5-5.5 hours instead of 4). Now I don't even notice a drop in the clarity or awakeness before my next dose. In other words, this stuff is making lasting, functional changes to my brain, which means I just don't get mentally tired like I used to. Its been eight days, but not once have I felt tired, at any moment in my waking hours, even at the end of long days of work and after repeated 2.00am nights. Yes, this stuff is God in powdered form, truly. My life is now clear, sharp, alert. Before I would get so tired working on my PC in the afternoons, I would constantly be falling into microsleeps. It was terrible. Btw. I've never used any caffeine or alcohol or prescription stimulants. Best, no matter how late the dose, I can work 'till whatever hour then flop into bed and go to sleep right away. It doesn't interfere in the least with sleep, in fact sleep is deeper and more refreshing than ever, with significantly more brilliant dreams. I did have to start eating egg yolks, due to the appearance on day three of an extremely mild headache (barely noticeable). Within two hours after eating six egg yolks, it was gone, permanently. I'm currently eating six raw egg yolks per day, and will cut back to four shortly. They're delicious, too. I take 3 teaspoons a day, at these times: 1. 9.00a (or whenever I get up) 2. 4.00p 3. 9.00p I'm just so amazed how my brain can really perform. This stuff is the most truly magical compound. The closest to a total genetic re-engineering of the brain, without having to do so. Even better, it potentiates cannabis significantly for me (2x) and decreases negative side-effects! |
| Posted by: alien2008 Jul 2 2008, 12:02 PM |
| hi All , <br><br>I tried piracetam for a month now and haven't seen any good effect. <br>All I got from it is tiredness , sleepiness , lethargy ,... <br><br>The only-good- thing I noticed is better quality of sleep and for longer period of time .<br><br>I tried different doses from 1/4 teaspoon to "attack doses" of 3mgX3 /day .<br><br>I also mixed it with Choline citrate for a whole week but nothing happened .<br><br>I saw that many people are getting very good effect from it .<br><br>I was wondering if I should keep trying with different doses /stacks or just give up .<br><br>Maybe my brain is not responsive to this chemical .<br><br>Thank you for any advice ! |
| Posted by: Jason97 Jul 2 2008, 12:09 PM |
| You need to take Vitamin B5 (Panthothenic Acid) along with a good 100mg/day B-complex, and also a significant choline source (egg yolks 4-6 / day). B5 is critical to making Acetylcholine. First, B5 is used to make Coenzyme A: http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/pantothenic-acid.php"Pantothenic acid is vital to the synthesis and maintenance of coenzyme A (CoA), a cofactor and acyl group carrier for many enzymatic processes, and acyl carrier protein, a component of the fatty acid synthase complex. Pantothenic acid is metabolized to coenzyme A via a sequence of steps." Second, Coenzyme A is converted into Acetyl Coenzyme A: http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/A/acetyl_coenzyme_A.html"Acetyl coenzyme A is formed when a two-carbon acetyl group is added to the coenzyme A carrier group." Third, Acetyl Coenzyme A and Choline are combined using the enzyme "choline acetyltransferase" to form AcetylCholine, with the Acetyl Coenzyme A donating its Acetyl group to the Choline: http://www.chemistryexplained.com/A-Ar/Acetylcholine.html"Acetylcholine is synthesized from choline and acetyl coenzyme A through the action of the enzyme choline acetyltransferase and becomes packaged into membrane-bound vesicles." |
| Posted by: TheDiesel Jul 2 2008, 07:48 PM |
| piracetam is a glutaminergic drug, not a cholinergic drug. piracetam affects downstream mechanisms far removed from direct cholinergic stimulation. since someone is probably curious, piracetam is a positive allosteric modulator of NMDA receptors (very similar to nefiracetam, but completely oppositve of huperzine or memantine). essentially, piracetam increases NMDA receptor density in parts of the brain, specifically the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex. the way this affects acetylcholine transmission is by increasing BDNF through two mechanisms (which are beyond the scope of this conversation). the increased BDNF attaches to trkB receptors on cholinergic neurons which further facilitates nerve transduction. the end result is categorized as long term potentiation (LTP) and/or long term depression (LTD), which is described as better learning capacity. for those of you still reading (which are probably few), the way you can synergize your supplementation for a nootropic approach would be to supplement with high amounts of L-serine or L-glycine. the L-serine will interact with a few enzymes, one of which will invert the stereocenter, converting it to D-serine (which is more responsible for NMDA action than glycine). a second item would be to add a AMPA modulator such as Aniracetam. Lastly, ALCAR can be added in to increase choline retention and recycling (which is more important [and bioavailable] than straight choline or a choline analogue). |
| Posted by: Jason97 Jul 2 2008, 07:53 PM |
| Your knowledge throws mine in the shadows; much appreciated. Now, knowing what you do, what do you think of Piracetam / Aniracetam tolerance? Also, what about those folks who report their headaches end with choline supplementation? |
| Posted by: TheDiesel Jul 2 2008, 08:03 PM | ||
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| Posted by: TheDiesel Jul 2 2008, 08:17 PM | ||
I digress. Good advice. Probably more relevant to those suffering from age-related dementia's, however. |
| Posted by: stoopkid Jul 6 2008, 05:01 PM |
| I ordered some piracetam and Choline Bitartrate. does anyone have any recommended dosages for taking them both together? |
| Posted by: TRUDY_CELLIST Sep 29 2008, 11:16 AM |
| Does anyone here know what the source of the Piracetam is: 1. Animal (what type of animal, internal derivative or by-product)? or 2. Vegetable? I want to buy it for someone with specific dietary needs. Thanks in advance. |
| Posted by: fronjm05 Oct 7 2008, 04:08 AM |
| So if I am taking a good mega b vitamin supplement and eat lots of eggs, do i not need to take this choline stuff? I would hate to add yet another supplement. Just took my first dose of piracetam!!! |
| Posted by: user15 Jul 3 2009, 05:39 AM |
| Hi. I am contemplating having 1.2 grams of piracetam a day. I would not like to take anyother supplement like choline citrate or lecithin simply cause i have a history of acne. would consuming piracetam alone (1.2 grams a day) for 4 months only be alright? |
| Posted by: jac-tict Sep 16 2009, 10:31 AM |
| Why should choline interact with acne? |
| Posted by: guzz Sep 17 2009, 05:24 PM |
| No I dont think piracetam "needs" choline from what I've read, though i think stacking them gets better results. |