I'm just starting to do my homework. So far it seems clear that 19nor is the preferred ph for use by women since it isn't very androgenic.

One or two people have suggested 1,4 andro as well. not sure if that is good advice or not and there's not too much info out there on ph use by women.

Better to stick with just the 19nor or both?

I was planning to get the norderm and reduce the doseage by half. Thought if I didn't notice anything after 4 weeks i'd use for a total of 6.

But again - some have suggested women should use much shorter time than this while still others have said women can go much longer at lower doses and do better.

I'd really like some suggestions on whether to use just the norderm or to stack it. (avoiding side effects is important to me). Also doseage and length of cycle suggestions for a woman. (weight is 140)

Thanks!

This somewhat depends; what are your goals?

-Losing fat?
-Gaining muscle?
-Gaining strength?
-A combination?

Nor-Derm, at a low dose (200 mg daily, however many sprays that is) for a 4 week cycle, is definitely a good starting point.

thanks! when you say 200 mg do you mean total doseage for the day split into 2 (so 100 mg each time)?

i had heard of increasing doseage as weeks go by. would you suggest this or just keep it steady the entire time?

if i notice nothing negative after 4 weeks of use should i extend 2 more weeks for a total of 6 or better to stop after 4?

would you suggest stacking it with anything else for better results or best to just go with norderm if i don't want to risk side effects?

as for my goals: right now my bodyfat is higher than i would like it (i'm up around 21%, gross i know, and want to get to and stay around 15%) my immediate goal is to lower bodyfat AND increase muscle size. i know it can be tough to do both simultaneously. right now my main focus is on lowering my bodyfat and then i'll switch focus to gaining muscle.

i had planned to cut first and then when i'm comfortable with my bodyfat to start with the norderm to help increase muscle. is that the best way to use it? would you agree that i should lower my bodyfat first and then use the norderm?

thank you again for the good info.

last question for now. do the 1,4 andro products tend to cause more or less water retention than norderm?

are side effects for a woman more probable with the 1,4 andro? the reason i ask is i hear 19nor is the preferred ph for women but definitely like the idea of less water retention (as i'm sure all women do)

so for that reason alone the 1,4 andro sounds more appealing.

are we talking the possibility of siginficant water retention with the 19nor? i want to be prepared....

and would choosing an andro product instead to avoid that be a "less good" idea?

what would be a good 1,4 andro product to stack with norderm (if i decide to go that route)

also, would i use less norderm if i stack? how much and how much of the 1,4 andro?

if i did start to notice any side effects would they go away if i immediately stopped using the 1,4 andro? (or would i be wise to stop the norderm too)

and if i were to have side effects would they be subtle or would they be apparent to others as well?

thank you for the help - i'm still deciding my best course. i'm looking to drop bodyfat and increase muscle size. i'll likely wait to use the ph(s) after my bodyfat issue is handled but i'm not even 100% sure on that part.

she could also use Methyl-4OHN when it is released. It has a very low androgenic profile.

Here's the info on a 19nor 1,4 stack from the FAQ

19-nordiol + 1,4-andro
Price: Transdermal/oral – high; oral – very high
Effectiveness: Low-moderate
Side effects: Low androgenic, low estrogenic
Recommended dosage: 19-nor: 300-500 mg transdermal, 900-1.5 g oral. 1,4-andro: 600-1000 mg oral.
Comments: With this stack, we get the benefits of two compounds with low side effects combined that balance each other out for both low androgenic and estrogenic side effects and probably less reduction in sex drive than if 19-nor was used as a standalone. The issue is that this is one of the most expensive prohormone stacks there is. I still recommend that those with a great concern with side effects use this stack, as they are more likely to see results from it. Using the 19-nor in a transdermal can help save some money.

Hilary, Depending on how your body reacts to 200 mg daily of the nordiol alone will probably determine how much you should take in a stack. This is just my opinion but if you're going to stack the norderm with 1,4 andro I'd start with a low dose of 1,4 andro. maybe 200 mg daily but no more than 400. I could be wrong so hopefully someone else can clarify this.


I have a couple questions about the nordiol as well. Can a guy (20 yrs old) cycle nordiol for more than a month? I hear it shuts you down hard and this might not be a good idea.

I'm under 150lbs so for my first nordiol cycle should I start at 300mg to see how my body reacts to it or is it unlikely I will see any results and just go with 400mg?

Will nordiol cause lethargy in which case I'd need 4ad?

This is a stupid question but I'm worried about hariloss which is why I'm interested in the nordiol so if I'm using a transdermal and it gets in my hair and on my comb is it possible I'll suffer some hair loss?

Last but not least, have ppl reported nordiol affecting a person mentally? ie mood swings, etc.

Thanx to anyone who helps. I just don't wanna stock up on like 50g of this stuff and find out I don't like it. Sorry to crash your thread Hilary but I'm sure you will find most of this info useful as well

does anyone know the answer to any of these questions?