Prohormone Information |
1Fast400 Forums > Hormone/Prohormones |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 5 2004, 12:39 AM | ||
| Prohormone FAQ By pogue pogue22@ziplip.com Revision 1.3 - 6/12/03 Special thanks to Tkarrde & roobear Included here are some of the most common questions asked about prohormones. This has been compiled into information based on some scientific studies, but mostly from user feedback after years of success using prohormones. Please keep in mind that this document might have some errors and you will need to do much more reading before you decide whether or not use prohormones. 1. What are prohormones? Prohormones are synthetically manufactured compounds which convert to anabolic hormones via enzymes in the liver; hormone precursors. They are commonly abbreviated as PHs. 2. What are they used for? Prohormones are used by athletes looking to increase size, strength, endurance, reduce recovery time or add lean body mass. They are most often used for increasing muscle mass or reducing bodyfat levels. Life extension groups are also increasingly using prohormones as a means of hormone replacement therapy, as an alternative to prescription drug use. 3. Do they have side effects? Yes. Prohormones can have the same side effects as anabolic steroids, and are dependant upon the user as to which side effects one might experience. Some side effects are acne, hair loss, breast tissue enlargement, and prostate swelling. The potential for these side effects does exist, but it can be reduced if one uses proper precautionary measures (see below). Generally, if a person is genetically predisposed to a side effect it will occur (i.e.: if someone has a history of male pattern baldness in the family, it could be assumed that this could be a side effect experienced if certain prohormones are used) 4. Which prohormones convert to which compounds? Here is a list 4 androstenediol (4AD or 4diol) converts to testosterone 19 nor-4-androstenediol (Nordiol or nordiol) converts to nortestosterone or nandrolone 1 androstenediol (1AD) converts to 1-testosterone (dihydroboldenone) 1,4 androstenedione and 1,4 androstenediol (1,4andro or Boldione) converts to boldenone and slightly converts to estrogen (the diol version does not convert to estrogen) 5 alpha androstenediol (5AA) converts to DHT 3 beta androstenediol (3 beta) converts to DHT 3 alpha androstenediol (3 alpha) converts to DHT 4 hydroxy androstenedione converts to 4 hydroxy testosterone which is an aromatize inhibitor (blocks formation of estrogen) 7-KETO-DHEA does not convert to any active anabolic compounds 1-testosterone (1-test) is already an active compound and does not need to undergo conversion Compounds you want to avoid. 5 androstenediol (5AD or 5diol) converts to testosterone at a very low rate and is an estrogen agonist 4 androstenedione (andro) converts to testosterone and estrone (estrogen) 19 nor-4-androstenedione (norandro) converts to nortestosterone and estrogen DHEA converts to androstenedione and can be converted to all other hormones Pregnenolone converts to progesterone and can be converted to all other hormones 5. How do prohormones work? Basically, when they are administered into the system, they are broken down in the liver and converted to their target hormone via certain enzymes. There have been a number of quotes describing how much of the hormone is converted, but there is no definitive answer as to how much of the prohormone is converted into its target active. Once a certain amount is created, the enzymes used for conversion become saturated and no more can be converted. This is true with all the compounds, except for 1-testosterone which really isn’t a prohormone. 6. What do the target hormones do? Each hormone works in different ways once it is converted, but essentially it attaches to an androgen receptor in the cells of your body. This in turn increases nitrogen retention and protein synthesis, meaning that your body is in a constant anabolic state (assuming you are continuously supplying your body with the hormone). Here is a brief description of each hormone and what it does. Testosterone is the primary male hormone responsible for development of the sex organs and muscle growth. Testosterone is both anabolic and androgenic—anabolic meaning it causes muscle growth and androgenic meaning that it causes development of secondary sex characteristics. Testosterone converts to both DHT and estrogen in its parent form. Testosterone is often the primary hormone used on a cycle of steroids. It is a mass builder, and will often help with unwanted androgenic side effects of other steroids. Although conversion to estrogen can cause many unwanted side effects on its own, testosterone should generally be the base to any cycle. Nandrolone is an anabolic hormone, with not as much androgenic potential. It attaches to the androgen receptor with greater affinity than testosterone, but can cause a loss of libido and generally stays active in the system much longer than does testosterone. This is the “safest” choice for users who want to avoid most common side effects. DHT (dihydrotestosterone) is the primary androgenic hormone in the body. It is responsible for increases in strength, as well as most of the unwanted side effects common with steroids. DHT is converted from testosterone via the 5 alpha reductase enzyme. DHT receptors are high in the scale, skin and prostate; high DTH levels are the most common cause of prostate swelling, acne, and male pattern baldness. Boldenone is a veterinary hormone, which is commercially sold as Equipoise. Equipoise is known as an alternative to nandrolone when using steroids. It provides an increase in appetite, with some fat burning potential. Boldenone converts to estrogen at about half the rate of testosterone. Those who are looking to avoid some of the stronger androgenic side effects also commonly use it. 1-testosterone is the 5 alpha reduced version of Boldenone. 7. How do I take prohormones? There are three common routes of administration for prohormones. These are usually based on their efficacy (i.e. how much is absorbed). Since the liver and stomach lining breaks down prohormones rather efficiently, taking them orally is the poorest route of administration. Most users prefer transdermal (topical) administration. When taken this way, you apply it to your skin and it will continue being absorbed over a period of 12 hours or so. Cyclodextrins or sublingual methods are also commonly used, which is where the prohormones are dissolved under the tongue. This also has a high level of absorption and works well. There are also some products on the market which are sold as “intraoral” or “intranasal”. These are meant to be sprayed into the nostril prior to your workout, and are generally only meant as preworkout boosts, not for a cycle of prohormones. Some manufactures have started selling prohormones in oral form with an ester attached. This, in theory, will allow it to be slowly absorbed for many hours similar to the other methods, but to my knowledge, there have been no studies demonstrating that this method increases bioavailability. 8. What is a cycle? What does stacking mean? A cycle is generally used to describe a length of time and common dosage when taking prohormones. Stacking means taking more than one prohormone at a time to increase gains or reduce side effects. Common cycle lengths are 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks, and 8 weeks. I recommend 4 week cycles, which seem to give the most gains with fewer sides. I would not recommend going beyond 8 weeks. Common stacks are 4AD and Nordiol, 1AD and 4AD, 1-test and 4AD, etc. You will notice most everything is stacked with 4AD. This is because testosterone gives you a bit more leverage, providing good gains and overall anabolism, with reduced androgenic side effects. Each of the prohormones can be taken alone, or taken together. The choice is yours and should be made from reading this text, and all the user feedback from this board and others. Research, research, research! 9. What is post cycle therapy? Post cycle therapy is a tried and true method of helping to solidify your gains by raising natural testosterone levels and lowering estrogen levels once your cycle is over. When you add external hormones to your body, your own natural production becomes suppressed. Your body attempts to compensate your endocrine system by stabilizing the other hormones, which results in an increase in estrogen. Once you quit supplying your body with external hormones, your natural testosterone will be low and estrogen will be high. Therefore, anti-estrogens are taken to halt the manufacture of estrogen in the body. This will result in higher testosterone levels, hence making it easier to keep your gains. Post cycle therapy should begin the next day after the prohormones have stopped being taken. Common post cycle therapy drugs are listed below with dosages: 6OXO 6oxo is an aromatize inhibitor sold by Ergopharm. It is the best over the counter anti-estrogen available for post cycle use. Week 1 – 600mg daily in two divided doses, morning and night Week 2-3 – 400mg daily Week 4 – 300mg daily Formasin/Formastat/Aromazap Note: 4 hydroxy androstenedione acts as a weak androgen and can cause further suppression of natural testosterone, but can be used post cycle. Dosages should be 250mg a day for the first two weeks, followed by anywhere from 50-250mg a day for the next two. Clomid Clomid is a prescription fertility drug, but is highly available and highly effective at blocking estrogen and increasing LH output. Day 1 – 300mg Day 2-11 100mg Day 11-21 50mg OR 150mg daily for 2 weeks 100mg daily for 2 weeks Nolvadex Nolvadex is also a prescription, which is highly available and blocks estrogen at the receptor. Week 1-2 – 40mg daily Week 2-4 – 20mg daily There are other prescription anti-estrogens available, but these two will be fine unless side effects arise, so we won’t discuss the other options in this FAQ. Other common post cycle favorites including high doses of flax oil, ZMA, tribulus and an ECA stack coupled with reduced training volume and increased calories (500 or so above maintenance). But, it is very important to use an anti-estrogen for post cycle. I would never recommend not using one unless the cycle length is 2 weeks or less. 10. What dosages should I use? Dosages are different for the different routes of administration and for the different hormones taken. Here is a basic outline of each prohormone along with general cycles used, based on user feedback. For your first cycle, I recommend sticking to a lighter dosing schedule for 2-4 weeks. Note: This is a general guideline. Dosages for any cycle can be higher or lower, and some products may incorporate one or more of these compounds so that the below amount might not be able to be achieved. This is just a basic outline and is far from completely accurate. 1AD 1AD is by far the most popular prohormone. It is considered to be the most effective taken orally, and has resounding user feedback. It is best stacked with 4AD to reduce side effects, the most common of which include lethargy and reduced libido. 1AD should not be used transdermally, and could be used sublingually, although there are few products with this delivery system used. 1AD is commonly stacked with 4AD and shouldn’t be stacked with nordiol, or the DHT precursors. 4-6 week cycles are best taken at anywhere from 300-900mg daily. Take in divided doses throughout the day to keep blood levels elevated. 4AD 4AD is the next best. It is almost always used with other hormones due also to its resounding user feedback and adding large amounts of mass from increases in testosterone and estrogen. 4AD can be taken orally, transdermally, or sublingually. 2-6 week cycles are generally used. 4AD can be stacked with just about anything. Oral: 300-1500mg daily. Oral is probably the worst way to take this, but if you are simply looking to reduce sides of 1AD, etc – it works. Take in divided doses to ensure elevated blood levels. Transdermal: 400-600mg daily with two applications in morning at night. Sublingual: Probably 15-50mg at a time, 3 times or more daily in divided doses. Nordiol Nordiol is the best prohormone for use by people who want to avoid the common androgenic sides associated with the other hormones. Can be taken orally, transdermally or sublingually. 2-4 week cycles recommended. Heavily suppressive, despite what literature says. Nordiol is commonly stacked with 4ad for mass, or 1,4andro for cutting or users wanting reduced sides effects. Oral: 500-800mg daily in divided doses Transdermal: 500-800mg daily in split doses morning and night Sublingual: 15-50mg in divided doses 1,4andro 1,4andro is renowned for causing appetite stimulation. It’s low in estrogenic sides and good for cutting or bulking. Some people claim that transdermal administration works well, but the feedback I’ve seen has been poor. Oral seems to be the route of administration, and the dione version appears to work better than the diol. 1,4andro can be stacked with just about anything. Taking 1,4andro for less than 4 weeks is generally a waste because it takes quite a while for the effects to kick in. Oral: 300-600mg daily in divided doses. Transdermal: N/A Sublingual: N/A 1-testosterone 1-test is the active form of 1AD and is best taken transdermally or sublingually, although oral products suspended in oil with an ether attached also have very good feedback. 1-test is best stacked with 4AD for mass or 1,4andro for cutting. Oral: 150-300mg when taken in ethergel product in divided doses Transdermal: 200-500mg daily or more in split doses Sublingual: Not sure 5AA/3 beta/3 alpha These all convert to DHT at different rates and have slightly different properties. I’m a little hazy on all of them, except that 5 alpha can compete with estrogen for receptor activity when converted to DHT. Some people have used 5AA in an oral product as a preworkout boost, while others have used 3 alpha for a “hardening” agent. Thanks to roobear for the below info on DHT precursors
7-Keto-DHEA This is slightly out of the scope of this FAQ, but is generally used for cutting. This has been shown to increase thyroid output and lower cortisol levels, without converting to target hormones. Used for cutting stacked with other thermogenic compounds for 4-6 weeks. Oral: 200mg in two divided doses Transdermal: 100mg daily 11. Are prohormones legal? Yes, currently they are legal in the US and some other countries. Please visit http://www.usfa.biz and write your politicians to ensure they stay that way. Prohormones are not tested for in job drug tests, but they are probably banned and can potentially show up on a drug test for athletics. Check your local laws for specific information. 12. Who should use prohormones? Mature adults above the age of 21 looking for increases in lean muscle mass or decreases in bodyfat levels. Most veterans will advise using prohormones after several years of training, to ensure you have a good feel for proper diet, nutrition and supplementation. Using prohormones under the age of 18 is a very bad idea; it can result in the closure of growth plates, thus resulting in permanently stunted growth; it can also result in potentially serious endocrine system problems. Those with potential for or already enlarged prostate or those susceptible to male pattern baldness should not use prohormones; nor should prohormones be used by people with heart conditions, who currently have gynocomastia, or have liver or kidney problems. If you have any doubts, see a doctor before using these compounds. 13. Can I take prohormones along with steroids? This is a hotly debated subject. Yes, you can – but why? If you have access to steroids, why would you bother with prohormones? Anabolic steroids are already hormones in their current form and require no conversion – hence, they are more powerful, albeit illegal. The only compound I would say that you could take with any other steroid would be 1-testosterone, which would be an equivalent of Primobolan or Equipose. The only other thing I can think of would be taking 4AD with Fina to reduce side effects. There is more information about this on boards like Anabolicminds or Animal’s board. 14. How can I avoid some of the potential side effects associated with prohormones? There are certain ancillary compounds available to treat potential side effects of prohormones. Below is a list I compiled which is pretty basic and should help clarify some of the issues of side effects. Prostate Issues The prostate is an organ at the neck of the bladder where it joins the urethra. It is responsible for controlling urination and ejaculation. Common symptoms of prostate problems are frequent or difficult urination, dribbling when urinating, erection difficulty, and pain in that general area. Either a rise in estrogen or DHT levels from increased testosterone, etc., probably causes this. If you have ongoing prostate issues, it’s best not to use prohormones, though potentially the use of nordiol might be acceptable. Herbal treatments: Saw Palmetto Extract – Usual dosage is 160mg several times daily Beta sisterol or plant phytosterols – 300mg several times daily Flax seed oil – anywhere from 5-20 tblspoons daily Prescription Treatments: Proscar/Propecia – blocks the conversion of testosterone to DHT. Ineffective with DHT derived hormones (1-test, 1ad, 5aa, etc) Spironolactone – an anti androgen. Best not used for this, but used topically (more below) Acne Acne is very common on prohormone cycles, and can range from mild to moderate. It will go away once post cycle treatment concludes, or within a few weeks of cession of the product. The best way to treat acne is with the soaps available at your local grocery store or pharmacy. Just pick up some Neutrogena or whatever and scrub your face twice a day or use the body wash. Hair Loss Hair loss is caused by increased levels of DHT. Since DHT receptors are heavy on the top of the scalp, some people will notice a lot of shedding or a receding hairline on some cycles. There are various treatments for this; the most common is topical Spironolactone available from Nizoralman or Dr. Lee. The 2% will work as a preventative measure, while the 5% will attempt to help grow some hair back. There are also other methods, such as azelaic acid or Nizoral shampoo, but they are not proven to be effective as spiro is. If you are concerned you are losing your hair and are currently taking something to help prevent it, prohormones are probably not the best idea. If still interested in using prohormones, Nordiol might be the best option available to you. Gyno Gynocomastia, or development of the breast tissue, is sometimes common among aromatizing (converting to estrogen) prohormones. The first symptoms are puffy and itchy or swollen nipples. If you start to notice this while on a cycle, you need to start taking Nolvadex immediately. Formasin/Aromazap/Formastat might work, but 6oxo is not going to help this in most cases, so Nolvadex should ALWAYS be on hand for this situation. It is highly available, not very expensive, and not illegal to posses, so there is no reason not to have it. Don’t wait and order some when you start to get the first signs of gyno, because Nolvadex needs to be taken as soon as symptoms of gyno appear. Start taking 40mg a day until the symptoms subside, and you may want to continue to take 10mg the rest of your cycle as precaution. Liver/Kidney Prohormones have to pass through your liver in order to convert, no matter what the route of administration, so higher levels of liver enzymes in the blood is common during a cycle. Many steroid users take Milk Thistle and ALA at high doses to combat this, and if you are concerned it would be a good idea to take one or both of these to help that. Problems with kidneys have not been an issue to my knowledge, but steroid users will often also take cranberry juice extract to help with that. Depression Some people report mild or moderate depression, especially post cycle when using 6oxo. This can be cured with prescription drugs such as Zoloft, Prozac, Paxil, etc. It can also be fought with herbal supplements such as St Johns Wort, 5-HTP or Sam-E. If you go with the herbal route, St Johns Wort should be 300mg 2-3 times daily, 5-HTP at 100mg several times daily, or 100-200mg of Sam-E once daily. You can combine all three if depression is extreme, otherwise my pick would be St. Johns Wort. Testicular Atrophy Many users report testicular shrinkage during a cycle. The testes will come back to full size once you start post cycle. If they do not, then it’s recommended you take Clomid and possibly even HCG to help restore them. Sleeplessness Some people report having trouble falling asleep or staying asleep on a cycle. My recommendation is to take 1mg to 3mg of melatonin 30 minutes before bed time. Some other options are Valerian root, GABA, Tylenol PM or Kava Kava (potentially stressful on the liver). 15. What kind of training should I use when using prohormones? Everyone has their own opinion on this, and you should use whatever works for use. Most people put an emphasis on higher volume while using prohormones, and you can add more isolation sets and workout more frequently due to increased recovery time. But don’t overtrain. Just because you’re using prohormones doesn’t mean you need to train daily or twice daily. Also, doing cardio on prohormones is fine. I recommend 2-3 times weekly of 20 minutes, if at all. 16. How should I eat when on prohormones? Try and eat 1-2g of protein per pound of body weight. Try and eat 500-1000 calories above maintenance, or more if bulking. Generally, standard nutrition guidelines should be followed. If cutting, try and eat 10-12 calories per pound of bodyweight, while keeping protein high. |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 5 2004, 01:52 AM |
| [Prohormone FAQ, continued...] 17. Should I take any other supplements while using prohormones? Take whatever you normally take. If you take creatine, it’s fine to continue taking it while using prohormones. Some people prefer to save it for post cycle to help retain some of the water weight. Otherwise, the usual stuff like a multivitamin, a good protein powder and flax seed oil should be standard issue for any athlete. 18. What are some good manufacturers of prohormone products? My personal picks would be Molecular Nutrition, Ergopharm, Avant Labs, BDC Nutrition, San, Syntrax or 1fast400. These are stand up companies that generally pump out quality products. 19. Can I make my own prohormone transdermal/oral/sublingual? Yes, there are several companies that offer prohormone powders in bulk such as Kilosports, Beyond a Century and 1fast400. You can buy powders from them and make your own capsules, cyclodextrins or transdermals easily. Visit Anabolicminds or Avant Labs message boards for a wealth of how-to information. 20. Can I inject prohormones? This is out of the scope of this FAQ, but yes you can. The results have been mixed, there have been some questions of products purity used in injectables, and there is a question of whether or not using them for this purpose is legal. 21. Is there anything I should know about transdermal delivery? Transdermals should be applied twelve hours apart. It is a good idea to apply them after showering and to rotate application spots daily. Apply lotion to application spots not in use. This is a good way to avoid a rash from the topical, which is a common side effect reported by users. Some prefer to scrub themselves with a luffa or sponge before applying them to remove the first layer of dead skin cells for optimal delivery. It is also a good idea to wear latex gloves when applying, and wash your hands when you are finished to avoid getting the solution into your eyes or other sensitive areas. Keep in mind that high amounts of sweating or getting the area wet too soon after application will wash it off, so it might have to be reapplied if this occurs. 22. Is there anything I should know about oral/liquid delivery? There are many products on the market with liquid delivery systems. You will need to drink these, and most of them taste badly. Just try and get them down as quickly as possible, or mix with another flavored liquid to help the taste. Also keep in mind that liquid and oral delivery methods are generally less effective. Even if the product is esterfied, it is still a good idea to take it several times daily in small divided doses to ensure saturated blood levels at all times. 23. Is there anything I should know about sublingual delivery? Try and let the product dissolve under your tongue and do not eat or drink anything for around 10-20 minutes after you take the product. As with orals, you will need to take it several times daily to maintain blood levels. 24. Which prohormones are best used in a bulking cycle and what kind of gains can I expect? Most people prefer the combination of 1-test and 4ad. This is a tried and true stack combination and most people seem to gain the best from it. Adding 1,4andro is also common to increase appetite and may help gains. How much one will gain off a cycle depends on your diet and training but gaining 10lbs in 4 weeks is quite common. 25. Which prohormones are best for a cutting cycle? Most commonly, people will use non-aromatizing hormones such as 1-test or DHT precursors to act as an anti-catabolic and increase hardness. However, low doses of 4ad may help, and adding 1,4andro can also be beneficial. 26. Is it okay to drink alcohol while taking prohormones? No, it is a really poor idea to drink while doing bodybuilding/weight lifting in general, but taking them while using prohormones is even worse. Taking large amounts of prohormones, especially orally, can cause increased liver stress. When you add alcohol into the equation it is a potential for disaster. If you have to drink, try to do it moderately and take milk thistle and/or ALA to help combat potential problems. Although, it would be best to avoid it completely. 27. Are there any other good documents I can read about prohormones or related topics? Yes, there are several, but they are slightly dated. Prohormones http://t-mag.com/html/27proho.html http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catproh.htm Post Cycle Therapy http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.php?issueID=7&pageID=77 http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.php?issueID=6&pageID=72 http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.php?issueID=1&pageID=38 If you have any other good links, please let me know and I will add them. 28. Can I overdose on prohormones? Possibly, if you are taking over a gram to two grams a day orally then it could cause some liver strain or stomach discomfort – it will also probably increase the side effects of the hormone. You should never go over 2 grams daily for prohormones, you will not see anymore gains, the side effects will probably be unbearable and most likely the enzymes will be saturated for them to be effective. 29. I can’t grow! Should I use prohormones? No. Anyone should be able to grow naturally without the use of prohormones; prohormones merely speed up the process. If you can’t grow naturally, please post your diet, training and supplement routine for review. Most likely, you are making some errors—so please try and correct these basic issues before you resort to using prohormones. They are not magic and will not work without proper diet and training. 30. Can women use prohormones? Yes, they can – but the doses shouldn’t be as high as using it for men. Using less androgenic hormones like Nordiol or 1,4andro is recommended above the others and no anti-estrogen is needed post cycle. I would recommend using nordiol at 300mg daily or 1,4andro 300mg daily for 2-4 weeks and tapering off the dosages slowly towards the end and possibly using tribulus extract post cycle. 31. When's the best time to take oral prohormones and should I take them with food? You want to take them in divided doses through the day, the standard is 3 doses 3 times daily. Taking them with food is optional, but if you take them with a high fat meal they can help absorption. Also keep hydrated (you should be doing this anyway) so as to avoid a burning sensation when urinating, as experienced with some prohormones. Most prefer to take them preworkout to give them a little extra boost. 32. Can I be drug tested for prohormones? Since prohormones convert into active anabolic compounds, it is the concern of some that they will be tested for in a drug test. The answer is almost always no, they will not show up in a drug test. Drug testing for anabolic steroids is very expensive and has to be asked for specifically. So, unless you are on probation for steroid use, or are a professional athlete, you will not be tested for prohormones/steroids. Also, since most prohormones have very short half lives, they will clear out of your system within a matter of days. General drug tests only test for opiates, ampetamines, cocaine and marijuana. However, if you are planning to join the military, or a sports organization that bans the use of these substances, it would be in your best interest to avoid them. |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 5 2004, 02:05 AM |
| Prohormones FAQ: Update By pogue pogue22@ziplip.com 12/26/03 The data contained in this update has been compiled mostly from user feedback along with some data present in compounds that have been released to the public in the past, or information from the pharmacutical companies that created these compounds. It is always a good idea to have a full physical before using these substances, along with having blood work done to check for liver/kidney anamolies. New Compounds Methyl 1-Test Methyl 1-Test is 1-testosterone with an alteration to the molecule that allows it to pass through the liver more freely without degredation. When a compound is methylated it changes the physical structure of the compound and it tends to act differently in the body. In the case of methyl 1-test, it seems to be a much stronger anabolic without particularly androgenic sides. Methyl 1-test is being sold in 5mg and 10mg tablets, as well as in powder and solutions. It seems to differ from other methylated compounds such as Winstrol and Dianabol in that it is more stronger mg per mg without very much conversion to DHT. The typical dosing pattern seems to be 5-10mg once daily. Those above 200lbs or experienced steroid/prohormone users might see benefits in 20mg ore more, however the side effects seem to be harsher the more you use. Some of the more common side effects reported are lethargy, decreased appetite, very painful pumps as well as high blood pressure. Methyl 1-test is a very powerful compound and is not recommended for beginners. This is clearly a drug and should be thought of as such. The only reason this compound is legal is due to the fact that it was never scheduled as a steroid since it was never manufactured, although its chemical structure is very similar to oral Primobolan. Users of methyl 1-test should be on the lookout for increased liver values, high blood pressure, extreme lethargy and pumps, as well as decreased appetite. Methyl 1-test should definintely be stacked with 4AD to help counteract some of these sides and give you the benefits of testosterone supplementation. Users should get blood work done before and after cycles of this compound. A cycle of methyl 1-test should not last any longer than 6 weeks. However, most users seem to prefer the 2 weeks on/2 weeks off pattern. Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione (Finagenx) This is a relatively new compound on the market. The manufacturer claims that this is a precursor to the powerful steroid trenbolone, however this does not seem to be the case. It does appear to convert to a steroid hormone, but it is not tren. It is a dione so you will have some conversion to estrogen even before it converts to its parent hormone. It is unknown what the anabolic/androgenic ratio of its parent hormone is, how it acts in the body, or if it can aromatize or not. This is a very expensive compound for the amount of gains users are reporting. The dosing seems to be very high, although I am not sure of the dosing pattern at this point. I would personally avoid this product. It is too expensive, with very little feedback. A methylated version of this compound should be out soon and sounds promising. Hydroxy Testosterone This testosterone has come on the market recently in the form of transdermals and powder. It is actually nothing like its parent other than the name. It is very mild in terms of anabolic and androgenic potential and would be relatively weak on its own. However, this compound has some very interesting attributes that make it very different from all the other steroids on the market. With the 4 hydroxl position on the molecule, it has the added benefit of not converting to estrogen or DHT. This would make it very similar to the compound Clostebol and ideal for cutting when used on its own. It also has the very interesting attribute of being a mild aromatize inhibitor and 5AR inhibitor (which prevents conversion of testosterone to DHT). One of its metabolites is Formastane (4 hydroxy androstenedione) which is also an aromatize inhibitor. It has also been claimed that this compound will stimulate LH output, which would be great for bridging inbetween cycles and obviously not cause any form of supression. However, I have not seen any data to confirm this. This compound appears to be very weak on its own. With the high price per gram for the powder, it would be a poor choice to use on its own. It does stack well with any other compounds, and like everything else would be optimally used with 4AD where it would impart very lean gains with virtually no sides. Since this is such a new compound, I really have no idea on what the dosing pattern would be. I would expect to see a methylated version of this on the market soon. As with all other steroids, this would be a very poor oral compound. It would probably be best used transdermally. Making it into an injectable seems to be very troublesome, as it is not very oil soluble without an ester. Hydroxy Nandrolone This compound is the same as a steroid known as Oxabolone which has been off the market for years. It has the attributes of being quite anabolic and not very androgenic. It cannot make the conversion to DHN, which is a relatively weak on its own anyway. It has also been speculated that this steroid acts as an aromatize inhibitor, like Hydroxy Testosterone, but I have seen no evidence for this either. Most information on this steroid seems to be speculation. Since it is a nandrolone derivative, it might have progesteronal activity. Also, since there is so little feedback on this compound it is hard to say. It would probably be similar to the popular steroid Deca, albeit weaker. It might make a closer match to trenbolone in activity, but there is little evidence to suggest that at this point. With the other compounds, any information on dosage is speculation at this point. A methylated compound known as 17aa 4OHN is soon to be replaced. I have heard claims that this should be similar to Anavar at an even lower dosage. However, this has not been released yet, so we will have to wait and see. As with all methylated compounds, one would want to take similar precautions when using these types of oral based steroids. Hydroxy Nandrolone is illegal in California and Nevada, but not federally schedulled. Methyl 5AA Another methylated version of an older prohormone, methyl 5AA should be a similar match to Proviron or Masteron. This compound will make a conversion to Methyl-DHT in the liver through the 3bHSD enzyme. It should be very well suited as a preworkout stimulant, as well as reducing the effects of estrogen and SHBG on a cycle. Since DHT acts as an aromatize inhibitor, it can help reduce circulating estrogen on a cycle in leu of typical anti-estrogens such as Nolvadex or 6OXO. Oral DHT has also been shown to bind to SHBG, allowing for more of other more powerful androgens to attach to the receptor, allowing for an overall more anabolic effect. One problem with DHT and its precursors is the fact that they are deactivated in skeletal muscle through the 3 alpha HD enzyme to prohormones like 5AA and 3 alpha. This seems to happen when an abundance of androgens exist, and is why DHT, even more potent than testosterone, does not make for a great muscle builder. Another concern for its users is the strong androgenic effets of DHT. This would obviously be a concern with individuals with potential prostate issues or androgenic alopecia. However, since this prohormone is making a conversion in the liver, instead of high 5AR saturated areas like the scalp and prostate, it would probably not have as many negative side effects as even typical 4AD/testosterone would. The dosage seems to be in the low range. Anywhere from 5-30mg anytime of day would work. It sounds like it would be particularly beneficial preworkout, where it would impart some of the positive benefits on neural activity, giving the user added aggression, energy and strength to have a better workout. As with all methylated compounds, similar precaution should be taken of not running the compound for more than 6 weeks and having blood work done to ensure the liver is in proper working function. Methyl 1,4diol Here we have a methylated version of the boldenone precursor, 1,4diol. In this version, the methylated version of the diol prohormone has been used instead of the dione. This will allow the hormone only direct conversion to its parent hormone, methylboldenone (Methandrostenolone) better known as Dianabol. Since this is a direct precursor to Dianabol, I would expect the same effects of it such as bloating, water retention and the high possibily of gyno. This is due to the fact that boldenone can aromatize into estrogen, here we would have a more powerful methylated estrogen, Methyl-estradiol. This would obviously be a very good mass builder, imparting gains in size and strength in a very short peroid of time. Obviously, quite a bit of it will be water though. Just as you would run Dianabol, you would want to stack it around 4AD/testosterone. You would want to have a good anti-estrogen on hand such as Nolvadex or Arimidex. Dosage for this compound has not been determined yet, but should probably be in the same range we've seen the other methylated prohormones. Again, you would not want to use this for more than 6 weeks and have blood work done once the cycle is completed. Methyl 4AD As if you didn't see this one coming, we now have a methylated version of our favorite prohormone, 4AD. The problem with this hormone, is it will directly convert to methyltestosterone, which is a very poor compound. Methyltestosterone will aromatize to methyl-estradiol and convert to methyl-DHT. The sides of these would obviously be much harsher than using its non methylated counterpart. The only positive effect I could see from methyl-4AD would be if it had instrinsic anabolic activity before conversion, which we have no idea about. The other good use for this would be as a preworkout boost, where we would have the added aggression and CNS stimulating effects of 4AD. Just using it preworkout would allow us to get the benefits, without the negatives, along with relatively no HPTA shutdown. Dosage for this compound has not been determined yet, but should probably be in the same range we've seen the other methylated prohormones. I have seen dosages recommended for 5-30mg daily. Again, you would not want to use this for more than 6 weeks and have blood work done once the cycle is completed. Products Not Yet on the Market I have added a few products I would expect to see out soon. Some of these may never come to light, but most probably will. So I decided to through them in anyway. Methyl Nordiol This compound should be fairly similar to the unpopular steroid Nilevar. Being a direct precursor to methyl-nandrolone, we would see increases in methyl-estradiol and methyl-DHN. Giving us a weak anabolic with more sides than we would expect from this weaker hormone. I would also expect there to be progestonal activity with this. So, although this seems to be another poor compound, it might have some good use in women or as a preworkout booster. Methyl Hydroxy Testosterone I would expect this to be similar to 17aa 4OHN. It will probably be very similar to Oral Turnibol where as it won't convert to estrogen or DHT, it will impart gains on strength and hardness, rather than mass gains. A Word About Methylated Compounds I feel we are now at the pinnacle of prohormone development. We now have prohormones/steroids that are methylated for almost complete bioavaibility. This is obviously a dream come true for individuals looking for true legal alternatives to illegal steroids. However, we need to realize that these are drugs in the true sense of the word. These can be very dangerous if misused or abused. It is imparitive that people think of these as drugs instead of typical OTC supplements that you can take lightly and not be concerned about possibly bodily harm. It is very easy to rationalize the fact that hepatoxicity doesn't happen, or that it happens in very minute amounts, but when we look at studies dealing with oral steroids we only have ones that we have seen on the market for years. With methyl 1-test and others, we have no idea if they are as hepatoxic as Halotestin or as mild as Proviron. It is always a good idea to get blood work done before and after a cycle to ensure that your liver is in proper health and you do not have underlying conditions that could be slowly killing you. Please be safe, and respect that these are powerful chemicals with potential to cause great gains as well as harm your body. A Word About Liver Protectants A lot of people have been using liver protectant supplements such as Silymarin and NAC to help protect their liver from damage when using methylated compounds. However, I feel that this is a bad idea. When you use compounds that increase gluthione levels in the liver, it will increase the breakdown of oral drugs, making them less effective. Although increasing liver enzymes is good for your liver, it is bad for any drugs you want to take and allow them to pass through your liver unabated. A better idea would be to use liver protectant supplements before and after a cycle to help your liver rebuild its enzymes after they have been damaged by methylated compounds. I have no idea if using liver protectants on a cycle will inhibit gains in any significant degree, but it could. Keep that in mind when planning your cycle. |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 5 2004, 02:19 AM |
| Transdermal Prohormone FAQ By David Tolson Contents 1. Transdermal basics Q: What is transdermal delivery? Q: Why is transdermal administration of prohormones superior to oral administration? Q: What are the advantages and disadvantages of transdermal administration of prohormones when compared to sublingual/nasal administration? Q: If I apply a transdermal hormone to a certain muscle group, does it increase strength in that particular muscle group? Q: Should transdermal prohormones be cycled differently than oral prohormones? Q: What are the dosages for transdermally administered hormones? 2. Application tips Q: When, where and how should transdermals be applied? Q: After applying the transdermal, should I wait before working out, showering, or swimming? Q: Should I avoid contact with other people in the area of application? Q: My transdermal product is resulting in rash/skin irritation. Is this normal? How do I avoid this? 3. Homebrewing Q: Can I add more prohormones to a transdermal prohormone product? Q: How do I make my own transdermal prohormone? Q: I am using the Dermabolics carrier. Can adding DMSO increase the efficacy of my transdermal prohormone? 4. Miscellaneous Q: Can transdermal prohormones be dosed more often than two times daily? Q: Is it acceptable to use transdermal prohormones in conjunction with topical fat loss products? Q: Can transdermal prohormones be used along with oral prohormones? Q: What is the shelf life of transdermal prohormones? 1. Transdermal basics Q: What is transdermal delivery? Transdermal delivery is a method of delivering active drugs through the skin barrier, and is in many cases superior to other forms of delivery (oral, sublingual, etc). It involves applying active substances (such as prohormones) dissolved in a carrier (a substance or blend of substances designed to promote delivery of the active ingredient past the skin barrier). Q: Why is transdermal administration of prohormones superior to oral administration? There are numerous reasons why transdermal delivery can be preferable. The first is that transdermal delivery allows prohormones to avoid first pass metabolism in the liver. Most prohormones are readily destroyed in the digestive tract and liver, often making the dosages required (and money spent) much higher compared to transdermal delivery. It is estimated that transdermal prohormones have a 30-40% absorption rate, compared to 5-15% for oral prohormones. Also, certain hormonal substances may be toxic to the liver, and transdermal delivery significantly lessens this. Secondly, orally delivered prohormones have very short half-lives and must be taken 3-4 times daily. Not only is this inconvenient, but it means that during certain periods (such as sleep) blood levels of the hormone will be very low. Transdermal delivery effectively leads to a steady release over 12 or more hours, solving both of these problems. Q: What are the advantages and disadvantages of transdermal administration of prohormones when compared to sublingual/nasal administration? Sublingual (absorption in the mouth, like a lozenge) and nasal delivery is limited by the amount that can be absorbed by the mucous membranes. The maximum amount of hormone that can be delivered is around 25 mg, and blood levels are elevated for 2-3 hours, compared to ~12 for transdermal. Therefore, sublingual and nasal prohormones must be dosed at least 5 times a day to be effective. However, sublingual/nasal delivery delivers 80-90% of the actives to the bloodstream, making it a very efficient carrier. A combination of transdermal application (for steady blood levels) and sublingual/nasal application (to spike blood levels, particularly pre-workout) could be effective. Q: If I apply a transdermal hormone to a certain muscle group, does it increase strength in that particular muscle group? Transdermal prohormones are delivered systemically, so applying them to a particular area will not cause disproportionate strength gain in that area. The exception is products that are geared toward local delivery, such as Sytenhance. Q: Should transdermal prohormones be cycled differently than oral prohormones? Cycles with transdermal prohormones should be the same length as one would use with oral prohormones, and post-cycle recovery should remain the same. The primary differences are how often you will administer the prohormone (two times daily as opposed to three or four) and the dose used. Q: What are the dosages for transdermally administered hormones? First off, it should be noted that the listed dosage and duration on product labels is often conservative. Also, dosage will vary on stacking, level of experience, and many other factors. Here are some general guidelines 1-testosterone: 200-500 mg 19-norandrostenediol: 400-800 mg 4-androstenediol: 400-600 mg 3-alpha androstenediol: 50-150 mg 3-beta androstenediol: 200-500 mg 4-hydroxyandrostenedione (formestane): 50-200 mg androstenetrione (6-OXO): 150-500 mg 7-OXO-DHEA (7-Keto): 100 mg Note: Much of the dosage information comes from the prohormone FAQ, by pogue. Q: What are the differences between the Dermabolics carrier and other carriers? The Dermabolics carrier is identical to the carrier developed by Avant Labs except it does not contain carbomer, a thickening agent (due to the fact that it is a spray instead of a lotion). For a discussion of the science behind this carrier as well as comparison to some other products, see Battle of the Transdermal Prohormones by Par Deus. 2. Application tips Q: When, where and how should transdermals be applied? Transdermals should be applied as close to twelve hours apart as possible. An ideal time to apply is after showering or bathing. Scrubbing with a luffa, wash cloth, or sponge beforehand improves delivery, as does shaving the area of application. Ideal areas of application are those with thin skin, such as wrists, top of feet, upper arms, chest, back, or legs. Larger amounts will require larger application areas. If possible, latex gloves should be worn during application. These can be purchased at most pharmacies. It is also a good idea to shake the bottle before application to mix the ingredients. Spray or pump the lotion onto the hand and then rub into the application area. Afterwards, wash your hands with soap. Five minutes should be allowed for the transdermal to dry after contact with clothes or other objects. Q: After applying the transdermal, should I wait before working out, showering, or swimming? Yes. Water can wash off the transdermals making them less effective. You should wait at least half an hour before any of these activities, and ideally 1-2 hours. Also if you shower after application it is best not to scrub the area of application. Q: Should I avoid contact with other people in the area of application? Most definitely, especially females and children. This applies primarily if you are using a prohormone or steroid. Contact with the area may result in delivery of active hormone to the person contacted. If you think it will become a problem, it is best to keep the area covered (saran wrap over the area of application will work), or only use areas that will be covered with clothing as application spots. Also, certain application areas (such as the back of the legs) are less likely to be contacted. Q: My transdermal product is resulting in rash/skin irritation. Is this normal? How do I avoid this? Some people experience skin irritation or rashes from transdermals, especially those containing certain active ingredients. 1-testosterone is particularly caustic, and latex gloves are a must when applying this substance (even after washing hands thoroughly small amounts can remain that may get in the eyes or other sensitive areas, and it is quite painful). If latex gloves are not available, you can at least use a sandwich bag. The best way to avoid irritation regardless of the source is to rotate the area of application – one day apply to the feet, another to the upper arms, and so on. You can also apply lotion to areas of application not in use. 3. Homebrewing Q: Can I add more prohormones to a transdermal prohormone product? Yes, but it will become saturated at a certain point. Also, increasing the concentration may reduce the relative effectiveness. If you want a concentration or blend of ingredients that is not available pre-made it is usually better to make your own using a carrier product such as the transport matrix. Q: How do I make my own transdermal prohormone? Simply add the hormone powder to the carrier and then shake. If you accidentally put in too much hormone powder heating lightly and shaking vigorously may help. To heat a solution, boil a pot of water and let it cool to just below boiling. Place the prohormone bottle in the water for a few minutes, remove, then shake. Q: I am using the Dermabolics carrier. Can adding DMSO increase the efficacy of my transdermal prohormone? This carrier is quite effective as it is. In theory, adding 5-10% DMSO may increase absorption. However, one will have to put up with the side effects of DMSO (increased irritation, bad breath, etc). 4. Miscellaneous Q: Can transdermal prohormones be dosed more often than two times daily? If desired, a smaller dose can be used three times daily (every eight hours), but this does not have a clear benefit. Q: Is it acceptable to use transdermal prohormones in conjunction with topical fat loss products? Yes, just avoid applying them both in the same area. Q: Can transdermal prohormones be used along with oral prohormones? Yes, although if one is doing an intraday cycle (oral prohormones during the day, transdermal overnight) trying to compare oral and transdermal doses can often be difficult. Stacking one prohormone transdermally and another orally is not uncommon. Q: What is the shelf life of transdermal prohormones? This depends on the substance; in general the shelf life is 1-2 years. This can be increased by freezing and/or vacuum sealing. If you are planning on stocking up you are better off buying bulk prohormone powders and then mixing them in a carrier before use. Special thanks to fuzz and the members of the Avant Labs forums for helping with this FAQ. This FAQ may be reproduced, but the entirety of the FAQ including the author's name must be included. |
| Posted by: Loki Feb 5 2004, 05:02 PM |
| Androgen Addendum by Loki 'Methyldienolone' The chemically-structured 'little cousin' of Methyltrienolone, one of the most potent steroids ever developed, 'MethylDienolone,' which also goes by the names 'Methyldien' & it's true, structural designation 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyestra-4,9(10)dien-3-one, is one of the newest & most misunderstood 17-alpha-alkylated (i.e. 'methylated') androgens to have recently emerged in the PH/AAS market as of late. Little true data exists concerning the use of methyldienolone in humans, and-- at the moment I am writing this article-- user feedback concerning the compound simply does not exist to any significant degree. To my knowledge, at present, I am one of only a half-dozen individuals in the United States to have used methyldienolone in a cycle. Thus, for the purposes of this piece, I will be relying more on my own individual experiences/observations with the compound, rather than lab assays & its presumed anabolic:androgenic activity ratio. Methyldienolone, for all extents & purposes, can best be thought of as a highly orally bioavailable, non-aromatizing 19-Nortestosterone derivative that boasts a very anabolic and moderately androgenic profile. Just to give you an idea, methyldienolone is only a single double-bond away from the 'ubersteroid' 17a-Methyl-17b-Hydroxyestra-4,9,11-Trien-3-one, one of the most anabolic (as well as hepatotoxic) steroids known to man. In my own limited experience with the compound, methyldienolone is a rather singular androgen in its utter absence of effects on mood, energy levels, and SNS activity. While it is moderately androgenic (and thus has the penchant to produce any/all of the typical androgenic sides associated with PH/AAS use [acne, hair loss, prostate hypertrophy, et. al.]), methyldienolone does not appear to have any significant effect on energy levels, appetite, aggression/complacency, or cognitive capacity. Furthermore, given its close structural similarities to methyltrienolone (as well as its tremendous potency), methyldienolone is probably also the most hepatotoxic commercially-available 17aa-androgen currently. As with all 17aa-androgens, those with prior liver conditions &/or concerns in this regard should make sure they exercise the upmost caution if they choose to pursue methyldienolone for personal use. In terms of its anabolic capabilities, methyldienolone is, without doubt, the most potent (on a mg/mg basis), widely-available 17aa-androgen that one can currently obtain 'legally' (Author's note: Although it is important to note that the actual 'legality' of this class of compounds [re: 17aa-androgens] in compliance with the terms of DSHEA should be considered 'highly questionable' at best). As a comparison, 1mg of methyldienolone seems to be equivalent, anabolically, to ~8-12mg of 17aa-1-Testosterone (also known as Methyl-1-Test). Impressive (and often rapid) LBM gains (even in the face of a caloric deficit), marginal strength increases, and noticeable aesthetic improvements in vascularity, muscle hardness & fullness, and leanness are all facets to methyldienolone use that I have witnessed first-hand. As a stand-alone androgen, methyldienolone should be used @ 1-3mg/day. Heavily experienced &/or much larger lifters might do better with 4-5mg/day, and I do not feel that there is any need whatsoever to exceed the 5mg/day dose-range. 750mcg-1000mcg (1mg) of methyldienolone can also be used in stacks with other androgens as well, although it is NOT recommended the use of methyldienolone in conjuction with aromatizing androgens such as 4-androstenediol (4AD) due to the potential incidence of progesterone-induced side-effects, which can negatively affect mood, skin appearance, insulin sensitivity, and vascularity, among other potentially-detrimental occurences/conditions. |
| Posted by: shpongled Mar 5 2004, 02:15 AM |
| Prohormone stacks From Introduction to Prohormones pt. II, by David Tolson Here are a number of prohormone stacks for those who are new to prohormones and attempting to reach various goals. The dosages given are general recommendations for a first cycle, and can be decreased for extra caution and increased on subsequent cycles if desired effects are not achieved. However, do not use dosages higher than those listed here on your first cycle, if anything start with a lower dose. Note that all of the stacks consist of two prohormones/steroids. There is usually little reason for more than this, and almost never reason to stack more than three substances. If increased effect is desired, just increase dosage. This allows one to better guage the gains and side effects they get from specific substances for future reference. These stacks have general ratings based on price, anabolic effects, and side effects. Keep in mind that individual reactions will always vary. 1. Stacks for muscle mass These stacks are ideal for putting on significant amounts of mass and gaining strength in a short period of time. They can be used whether bulking or cutting, but they will probably cause a significant increase in appetite and at least some water retention which can interfere with progress and guaging of results while cutting. 1-test + 4-AD Price: Transdermal – very low; oral – high Effectiveness: Very effective Side effects: Moderate-high androgenic and low-moderate estrogenic Recommended dosages: 1-test: 150-250 mg transdermal, 300-500 mg oral, 500-800 mg oral as 1-AD. 4-AD: 200-400 mg transdermal, 600-1200 mg oral. Comments: This is the most popular stack, and with good reason. Transdermally, this combination produces fast and noticeable results and at a good price. Orally (usually in the form of 1-AD and 4-AD) it is more expensive but still a highly effective stack. The 1-test provides high anabolic activity while the 4-AD reduces some of the side effects and provides additional anabolism. Sex drive is usually maintained or even significantly increased. This is the #1 recommended stack for beginners who want to see good gains with a good side effect profile. 4-AD Price: Transdermal – very low; oral – low Effectiveness: Low-medium Side effects: Moderate-high androgenic and estrogenic Recommended dosage: 600-800 mg transdermal, 1.5-2 g oral. Comments: 4-AD is also commonly used as a standalone, especially by those who do not want to begin with a compound as potent as 1-test, or by those simply seeking the benefits of increased testosterone. In addition to the increased strength and muscle mass and decreased body fat, 4-AD significantly increases sex drive and provides the other neural benefits of testosterone. It can also be used as a preworkout stimulant. 1,4-andro + 4-AD Price: Transdermal/oral – medium; oral – high Effectiveness: Moderate Side effects: Moderate androgenic and estrogenic Recommended dosages: 1,4-andro: 600-1000 mg oral. 4-AD: 300-500 mg transdermal, 900-1500 mg oral. Comments: This is a replacement for the 1-test/4-AD stack that has a better side effect profile but will still produce good results while bulking. 1,4-andro will have less androgenic side effects than 1-test and also will not reduce sex drive, but it is also a less effective muscle builder. This stack is recommended for those looking for a good combination for bulking but also concerned with side effects and not as concerned with price. 2. Stacks for leaning out These are stacks that are generally preferred by dieters or pre-contest preparation. They are used to promote muscle hardness and vascularity with little water retention, and also used for lean mass gain. Athletes more concerned with endurance may also find these stacks of benefit. 1-test + 1,4-andro Price: Transdermal/oral – high; oral – very high Effectiveness: Highly effective Side effects: Moderate androgenic, low estrogenic Recommended dosages: 1-test: 150-250 mg transdermal, 300-500 mg oral, 500-800 mg oral as 1-AD. 1,4-andro: 600-1000 mg oral. Comments: In my opinion this is the most effective dieting stack for beginners (when the 1-test is transdermal), with the primary issue being the high price. 1-test is androgenic, while the 1,4-andro will offset this effect to a degree, and both compounds will promote lean mass gain or at least maintenance of strength and size on a diet. The 1,4-andro will provide a small amount of estrogen that will also be beneficial. 1-test Price: Transdermal – low; oral – medium Effectiveness: Moderate-high Side effects: Moderate-high androgenic Recommended dosage: 200-400 mg transdermal, 400-800 mg oral, 600-1200 mg oral as 1-AD. Comments: This will be almost as effective as the above stack (probably more effective in higher dosages) but at reduced price and with a greater degree of side effects – both androgenic side effects and the side effects of low natural testosterone and estrogen levels. Some find that they can easily tolerate these side effects while others cannot. While cutting, stacking 1-test with a lower dosage of 4-AD may also help. For cutting, I recommend trying 1-test as a standalone or with low dose 4-AD before adding in another compound like 1,4-andro, because if one finds it to be effective and tolerable a lot of money can be saved. 3-alpha + 1,4-andro Price: Transdermal/oral – medium; oral – medium Effectiveness: Moderate Side effects: Moderate-high androgenic Recommended dosages: 3-alpha: 50-150 mg transdermal, 100-300 mg oral. 1,4-andro: 600-1000 mg oral. Comments: This is another popular dieting stack. 3-alpha is a DHT precursor, and as such will (reputedly) increase hardness and strength while also being anti-estrogenic. The increased strength may be of particular benefit on a diet. The 1,4-andro is added to provide additional benefit to strength/anabolism without adding much in terms of side effects. Those concerned with androgenic side effects such as baldness should avoid using 3-alpha or DHT precursors. 3-alpha + 1-test Price: Transdermal – low; oral – high Effectiveness: Moderate-high Side effects: Highly androgenic Recommended dosages: 3-alpha: 50-150 mg transdermal, 100-300 mg oral. 1-test: 150-250 mg transdermal, 300-500 mg oral, 500-800 mg oral as 1-AD. Comments: This is about as androgenic as you can get, but should allow for significant retention/increase in lean mass and strength. It is doubtful that the anabolic benefit will be as high as if a compound that aromatized was included, but this is ideal for those who want to avoid estrogenic side effects but are not concerned with androgenic side effects. On this stack, there will be very little estrogen in the body which can be unhealthy in the long-term. 3. Low side effect stacks For many, especially beginners, prevention of side effects is the number one concern with prohormones. On prohormones, some side effects, such as shutdown of natural testosterone production, are inevitable. Also, with decreased side effects there is usually a trend of decreased effectiveness and also increased price. However, for those whose number one priority is minimizing side effects, these stacks are ideal. Due to the low amount of androgenic side effects, these are also the best stacks for females who want to use prohormones, although they should reduce the recommended dosage by approximately half. 1,4-andro Price: Medium-high Effectiveness: Low-moderate Side effects: Low-moderate androgenic, low estrogenic Recommended dosage: 800-1600 mg orally. Comments: At this point, user feedback on 1,4-andro alone has not been promising. Although increased strength and lean mass gains are reported, they are usually not as significant as expected, and only at higher dosages. This is not to say that it doesn't work, only that most do not like the monetary cost/benefit ratio compared to other prohormones/steroids. Still, even at effective dosages very few side effects have been reported. Also, another possible reason that there is less positive feedback is that this compound does not cause rapid and noticeable changes, which may be more related to the side effect profile than anything else. Significant gains can still be made, albeit at a higher price. 19-nordiol Price: Transdermal – low; oral – medium Effectiveness: Low Side effects: Low-moderate estrogenic Recommended dosage: 400-800 mg transdermal, 1.5-2 g oral. Comments: 19-nor is another prohormone that hasn't really lived up to its promise. Again, it is effective, but only once high doses are reached. Users can expect very few if any androgenic sides, but with a good chance of some estrogenic side effects occuring. It will also reduce libido. This prohormone is best used by those who want to avoid any and all androgenic side effects. 19-nordiol + 1,4-andro Price: Transdermal/oral – high; oral – very high Effectiveness: Low-moderate Side effects: Low androgenic, low estrogenic Recommended dosage: 19-nor: 300-500 mg transdermal, 900-1.5 g oral. 1,4-andro: 600-1000 mg oral. Comments: With this stack, we get the benefits of two compounds with low side effects combined that balance each other out for both low androgenic and estrogenic side effects and probably less reduction in sex drive than if 19-nor was used as a standalone. The issue is that this is one of the most expensive prohormone stacks there is. I still recommend that those with a great concern with side effects use this stack, as they are more likely to see results from it. Using the 19-nor in a transdermal can help save some money. 19-nordiol + 4-AD Price: Transdermal – low; oral – low-medium Effectiveness: Moderate Side effects: Low-moderate androgenic, low-moderate estrogenic Recommended dosage: 300-500 mg transdermal, 900-1.2 g oral. 4-AD: 300-500 mg transdermal, 900-1.2 g oral. Comments: This stack is the middle ground between the low side effect stacks and the mass gain stacks. The side effects are pretty balanced, and it will not kill sex drive, and will also yield noticeable results. Another benefit is that it doesn't empty the wallet as much as other low side effect stacks. Additionally, if side effects are noticed on cycle, they can easily be reduced by adding in a 5-AR inhibitor like finasteride (for androgenic side effects) or an aromatase inhibitor like formestane (for estrogenic side effects), allowing one to have the comfort of knowing that should side effects occur, they can be rapidly eliminated and ending the cycle is not necessary. |
| Posted by: shpongled Mar 17 2004, 06:18 PM |
| A new prohormone sticky will be up shortly. It'll probably have a lot of spelling errors and such, but I'm really tired and am just posting it for now then going to bed. It will be refined in the next few days. Mods, once it is up, feel free to make additions, just let me know so I can also change the hard copy. |
| Posted by: jrod730 Jul 16 2008, 12:09 PM |
| Good write up. I am making a site called. www.phcycles.com would you mind if I use this material (obviously giving you credit for it). |
| Posted by: rbrooks656 Jul 16 2008, 01:44 PM |
| sexy |
| Posted by: bustout Jul 18 2008, 12:09 AM |
| is their any advantage to converting a methelated product like M1T to a transdermal? |
| Posted by: Josh47933 Jul 18 2008, 04:08 AM | ||
No. Methylated compounds are specifically made for oral use. |
| Posted by: Reza2 Jul 18 2008, 09:21 AM |
| very nice rly got some doubt off my head |