SAN Attitude

1Fast400 Forums > Supplements


Posted by: Ian31966 Feb 19 2006, 10:57 AM
[PRODUCT]2296[/PRODUCT] I am a drug teasted athlete and was just wondering if this product is natural and doesnt contain prohormones? any thoughts would be great. thanks.

Posted by: TheDiesel Feb 19 2006, 08:24 PM
No, it is not hormonal. It's a metabolite of 6-OXO. In fact, it has a lesser affinity for aromatase then either 6-OXO or ATD (the other 6-oxo metabolite). It does turn back into 6-OXO, which would then turn into ATD.

Kinda complicated, but you get the gist of it.

Posted by: rich_55 Feb 20 2006, 12:07 AM
QUOTE (TheDiesel @ Feb 19 2006, 08:24 PM)
No, it is not hormonal. It's a metabolite of 6-OXO. In fact, it has a lesser affinity for aromatase then either 6-OXO or ATD (the other 6-oxo metabolite). It does turn back into 6-OXO, which would then turn into ATD.

Kinda complicated, but you get the gist of it.

Which is considered a steroid by many leagues and organizations including the IOC.

Posted by: TheDiesel Feb 20 2006, 12:31 PM
It's considered banned or a steroid? And which metabolite are you refering to? 6-OXO is an inactive keto which exerts no steroidal activity, how can it be considered a steroid? I'm also curious how one would test for 6-OXO.

Posted by: rich_55 Feb 20 2006, 01:28 PM
Steroid or no steroid. Androstenetrione and any related compounds, metabolites, etc. are banned by many organizations including the IOC.

Some organizations have stricter policies then others, but I know the organizations that I competed with this past year (INBF and ONBF) had banned these substances.

Posted by: TheDiesel Feb 20 2006, 02:32 PM
QUOTE (joseph23573 @ Feb 20 2006, 12:39 PM)
Attitude is an AMAZING product IMO.

QUOTE
Which is considered a steroid by many leagues and organizations including the IOC


No, it is not. It is an aromatase enzyme inhibitor. This decreases circulating estrogen levels which in turn causes test production to increase. Pretty fucking ingeneous if you ask me.

Attitude is ATD+3-OHT+nettle root

3-OHT has a higher affinity for aromatase, making it very potent. Nettle root may lower SHBG, which is a plus. SHBG is a protein which attaches itself to circulating test, making it useless. Free test is where it's at.

It's not a steroid, just a way to increase endogenous test levels, which is where it's at IMO. cool.gif

I'm not going to comment on how good Attitude might be, since hardly any of my biological-efficacy predictions turn out accurate, but 3-OHAT does not (according to the original research anyway) have a higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme.

And it's 3-OHAT, not 3-OHT : two TOTALLY different compounds.

3-OHT is a steroid.

3-OHAT is 3-hydroxyandrostenetrione, a metabolite of 6-OXO itself.

My prediction is that the 3-OHAT was added for innovations sake, and the actual active components are ATD (estrogen suppression) and nettle root (anti-inflammatory).

Posted by: TheDiesel Feb 20 2006, 02:38 PM
QUOTE (joseph23573 @ Feb 20 2006, 02:35 PM)
nettle root being not so effective in lowering SHBG? What do you think?

It's SHBG lowering properties are so transitory they're negligable, IMO. Especially in that low of a dosage.

Posted by: TheDiesel Feb 20 2006, 03:32 PM
QUOTE (joseph23573 @ Feb 20 2006, 02:50 PM)
I was actually taking an additional 1500mg nettle root at night. Do you really believe 3-OHAT is not as effective as once thought?

Isn't Gaspari Novedex the same ingredients?

Do you think taking ATD solo would be as beneficial as taking Attitude?

3-OHAT was never thought to be effective. Don't forget that 3-OHAT has been around forever and no one used it. It was added in to one of gaspari's products by Bruce Neller awhile back with the addition of ATD. It was never used alone because it is not effective. And it still isnt.

I read about 3-OHAT years and years ago when they were studying 6-OXO and its metabolites for cancer research. The dominant keto's were 6-OXO and ATD. You can't find those studies anymore because they magically disappeared when Bruce neller introduced his novedex XT (dont ask me how).

As far as nettle root, I don't know much about it. I have a theory about SHBG, but nothing substantial because -in theory- it shouldn't work at all. It's anti-inflammatory properties are well known though, so its not a bad supplement to take.

Posted by: TheDiesel Feb 20 2006, 07:38 PM
here was my original post on Activate:
QUOTE
Yeah I'm sure. Testosterone is more tightly bound to SHBG, therefore displacement of SHBG would lead to a greater increase in free estrogen concentration (-greater than estrogen baseline). % wise, there is far more testosterone bound to SHBG than estrogen based simply on the mechanics of the male endocrine system: Estrogen is a secondary byproduct of of endogenus testosterone synthesis. Point is, and what the company's focus on, is that more testosterone would be released than its estrogen counterpart. This is obviously true, however its action on estrogen is worth mentioning. This, coupled with the fact that free testosterone activates the negative feedback mechanism in the HTPA, and also is more likely to be aromatased into estrogen, makes 'activate' seem worthless in my humble opinion. Free testosterone is overrated, I suspect, as it is 'free' to do many different things; most of which aren't exactly productive to one interested in building muscle. Free test is 'free,' and heavily oriented, towards turning into DHT via 5 alpha reduction. DHT is an interesting molecule, and one worth noting, however it's affects on muscle anabolism are nearely negligable in the grande scheme of testosterone displacement.

Ultimately, 'free test' is a transitory molecule. Propagation of SHBG displacement has its disadvantages and consequences over time. Generally, testosterone freed by anything other than homeostatic control is 'free' to be used in a number of different fashions; the least of which is muscle anabolism; the greatest of which is the perpetuation of male secondary characteristics (via DHT). Taking these factors for granted, free testosterone is left with the options of binding to inhibitin (and thereby causing its own inhibition) or directly activating the negative-feedback mechanism via the pituitary gland. I suspect a few of these measures could be circumvented with proper supplementation (propecia plus hCG).

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Posted by: rich_55 Feb 20 2006, 09:28 PM
Tribulus is not banned by many orgs and neither is ActivaTe. I enjoyed ActivaTe quite a bit and definitely recommend that product.

Posted by: lumberjackel Apr 4 2006, 04:16 PM
Would 6oxo and ATD stacked together work well.
Also what is more 6oxo or ATD, seeing how 6oxo has been proven on human studies and ATD is still kind of new.

Posted by: the bigt Apr 6 2006, 12:54 AM
currently doing 7oxo, androstenetrione, and yohimbine in topical form mixed in the matrix sold by BN and it is kicking ass. strength and libido are off the charts

Posted by: DownTown Dec 14 2006, 10:38 AM
Would attitude be helpful during pct, or would it actually shut you down even more?

Posted by: Alex57726 Jan 4 2007, 03:25 PM
Rich is wrong it is not banned, check the 2006 banned list pdf on the WADA site if you don't believe me..

..that being said the 2007 will surely be coming out soon.

Either way doesn't explain Rich's rationale other than hear say..

Posted by: Alex57726 Jan 4 2007, 03:26 PM
Rich is wrong it is not banned, check the 2006 banned list pdf on the WADA site if you don't believe me..

..that being said the 2007 will surely be coming out soon.

Either way doesn't explain Rich's rationale other than hear say..

Posted by: hadi_D Jan 4 2007, 04:43 PM
Would Attitude be better then Novedex xt, by Gaspari Nutrition? would it be wise to take both of them during PCT?