Smart Drugs/Nootropics???

Yeah, Neurostim looks like it'll be pretty good. How much will it cost here? Got anything else coming out soon Scivation?

I'm interested to know what ratio of choline : piracetam you guys are taking.

Are headaches the possible negative side effects mentioned above, or something else?

$32.99 here.

Anyone?

i do love piracetam a lot. i am wondering if stacking racetam with Alpha-GPC Powder is better than PS ?

i am a litle confused what is the diff btw Choline Citrate, PS, lechitin, Alpha-GPC,soy ?

HELL. man how do u do to stuff ur self with 1500g. 700g is ~$18
$20 a day of piracetam that is dirty heavy .

Right now I'm taking a supplement of piracetam, choline and ALCAR. This is my fourth day.

First of all I have been astonished by the difference it has made in my guitar playing, I can learn pieces of music effortlessly (by comparisson). There is a new immediacy between the page and my fingers. My mind is a switchboard that reacts to input (musical notation) and then orchestrates an appropriate output on my instrument via my hands. With piracetam I can make those switchboard connections more quickly without any doubt whatsoever.

I have been taking my supplements all in the morning.

4g Piracetam
1g Choline
1g ALCAR

I wake at 8am, and I don't eat until noon usually. Since you are supposed to take supplements on an empty stomache, I have been waiting to eat until my classes let out at noon. I feel that I need to eat sooner in the day though - I seem to be rather tired despite 8 hours of sleep. After I eat I usually feel much more relaxed, awake and focused. I haven't had problems with headache. I've had some acid reflux without food as well.

I'm going to change my protocol to the following.


850mg Piracetam and 700mg Choline (with lecithin and bicalcitrate source)
-Four times a day. I chose this dosing due to measuring convenience.

1g ALCAR, two times a day
-First thing in the morning and lunch.


So my ration of piracetam to choline used to be ~4:1. The research that I've read concerning piracetam and/or choline and the effects of different combinations always uses a 1:1 ratio for piracetam and choline.

"There are also a number of substances reported that may enhance the activity of piracetam. The most well known is choline. The combination of piracetam and choline is reported to be synergistic when used to treat dementia [19], and a study in mice indicates that 50 mg/kg piracetam along with 50 mg/kg choline IP was superior to up to 1000 mg/kg of piracetam alone or up to 200 mg/kg of choline alone [58]. Another study in rats found 100 mg/kg of both piracetam and choline to be superior to 200 mg/kg of either substance [59]. Finally, a study conducted found that when normally ineffective doses of piracetam and citicholine (a nootropic form of choline) were combined, retention was enhanced at both the 24 hour and the 7 day point [60]. Other substances that piracetam has been reported to synergize with include vitamin B6 (for hypoxia), phosphatidylserine (for Alzheimer's treatment), and hydergine [3-4, 61]. James South, MA also hypothesizes that other B vitamins, NADH, lipoic acid, coenzyme Q10 or idebenone, and magnesium may all enhance the activity of piracetam [4]. "
http://www.bulknutrition.com/a86_Brain_Food__Piracetam_I.html

Although I am quoting bulk nutrition's article, I have seen these research abstracts on pubmed as well.

I'll let you know if I notice change.
Nate

i think that DMAE break to choline not sure. how mutch.

also wondering from u guys how do u known ur headache are from lower choline level and not from to mutch as i know pira increasse levels of choline and other neurostransmiters

My best conclusion from reading and personal experience:

Piracetam increases the rate of choline cycling (thank you David Tolson). I think the headache may be caused by a problem with the choline cycle.

Check out the graphic on this site for reference below: http://abdellab.sunderland.ac.uk/Lectures/Nurses/cholinergic.html

Here it is, my brain child...or maybe it's someone elses. Yep, I remember now. I got the idea here. http://www.restoreunity.org/antiaging_b5.htm

If you increase the rate of choline cycling with piracetam, and you increase the amount of choline available then there is only one part left: conversion to actylecholine which requires acetyl-CoA which requires coenzyme A (CoA) which requires pantothenic acid aka vitamin B5. Average daily value of B5 is ~5mg. In a very specific treatment for acne people have taken as much as 20 grams of B5 in a day. Obviously there is some play with the dosage. I take about one gram a day, and I have had great results with piracetam ever since my last post.

I also take a B multivitamin just to make sure that my B's aren't getting out of proportion with the addition of B5.

Sorry for the verbiage in my last post.

Personal experience has led me to believe that a 1:2 g ratio of choline to piracetam is good (1 gram choline for 2 grams piracetam).

B5 must be taken with choline. Since an overdose of B5 is not a major concern I take B5 and choline in a 1:1 ratio. If your body doesn't get enough B5 (coenzyme A) then your system will overtaxed; you need coenzyme A for all sorts of chemical reactions in your body. Although your body can actually manufacture B5 when you are critcally low, it won't be able to make enough if your body is trying to convert lots of choline into the form your nerveous system uses.

Bottom line: you will be successful with the following ratio - 2g piracetam : 1g choline : 1g B5 (pantothenic acid).

I would really appreciate some feedback from someone with more chemical/biological knowledge than me. I am just stating what makes sense and has worked for me. I claim no ultimate authority with this advice.

I don't think that amphetamines fall in the nootropic category, but hey, maybe someday they will!!

i hear they are synergistic