human body CAN'T digest more than 30g protein/hour |
1Fast400 Forums > Diet & Nutrition |
| Posted by: franul@ May 29 2004, 01:40 AM |
| is it wise to take protein shakes with 40+g proteins then?? |
| Posted by: weeviekins2000 May 29 2004, 08:29 AM |
| I believe thats absolutely FALSE! |
| Posted by: lovetoeat May 29 2004, 08:35 AM |
| Everyone's protein needs are individualized, I would be more worried about the excess calories that would come from super-sized portions of protein. |
| Posted by: Diana28913 May 29 2004, 10:28 AM |
| everyone has a diff. protein intake, but body can only metab. 20 grams per hour. protein is the amino acid that aids in muscle repair. what many ppl do not realize is that, like carbs, protein can also be coverted into gluclose. if unused, it will be stored in adipose tissue as fat. large amts of protein also increase acid levels in kidneys, higher than average. if prolonged and kidneys cannot filter out acid levels, kidney stones maybe formed. some ppl swear by the calucated method of protein ( 1 gr of protein X 1 lb of body weight) and others do not..i am one of them.........i never monitored my protein or carb intake. i try to eat several well balanced meal daily and still see nice muscle growth. |
| Posted by: franul@ May 29 2004, 11:09 AM |
| Diana, what about cutting cycle? how should i deal with my protein intake? |
| Posted by: Diana28913 May 29 2004, 11:41 AM | ||
hey franul, as for protein shake intake, i really stopped drinking them. im not against protein shakes. but think about it realistically....protein shakes in anicent times Gladiators and ancient Greek athletes did not exit , athletes were fed solid food for their training. i have seen very promising muscle growth by sticking w/ regular food instead. liquid protein enters the blood system more speedily and replenishes the body faster, but solid food goes through the stomach to be metabolized/broken down...in this way the food stays in your system longer and the energy stays w/ you for a few hours longer than liquid protein. shakes are great if your on the run, and cant afford to eat anything after your wkout. i've had many diff brand names that gave me horrible side effects too. many shakes contain more hormones and chemicals then what we need. as a woman, i dont need anymore hormones than what nature already gave me...lol im not a believer of the 1gr of protein X 1 lbs . i simiply eat as many well balanced meals as i can eat throughout the day. i do carry around those small cans of tuna (in water) w/ the pop off lids. they're quick and easy to eat when you're on the go. they contain about 20 grams of protein per can. a serving portion of protein and carbs contain enough vitamins and minerals and other nutrients that your body needs. eating small amts this way daily feeds your body w/ the right amt of stuff to keep it going. |
| Posted by: weeviekins2000 May 29 2004, 12:29 PM |
| I don't agree with you about the body only digesting 20 grams per hour. Lets just agree to dis-agree on that though. I don't want this to become one of those long played out threads with everyone just "flaming" each other like you see at avant. I do agree with you though about people putting to much emphasis on protein. A lot of people don't realize, like you said that too much protein will also turn to fat. I don't think you need 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight...Some idiots even think you should have 2 grams per pound of bodyweight. That is just ridiculous. Maybe 1 gram per pound of Lean Body Mass....This is all very debatable.... |
| Posted by: lovetoeat May 29 2004, 01:05 PM | ||
What are you basing this number on? |
| Posted by: victory May 29 2004, 03:03 PM | ||
And how many of these ancient gladiators and Greek athletes had 18+ inch arms and 29+ inch thighs at under 8% bodyfat? |
| Posted by: Diana28913 May 29 2004, 04:15 PM | ||
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| Posted by: Diana28913 May 29 2004, 04:26 PM | ||
victory, funny ! but you missed the point. we're not talking about bodily measurements or % of body fat. reread the post again. |
| Posted by: Steven Tecson May 29 2004, 06:39 PM |
| I'd like to know where you pulled up this magic number of 20g/hour. |
| Posted by: Diana28913 May 29 2004, 08:24 PM | ||
others say its 60 grams every 2 hours, while other still say differently. if you disagree w/ the number i stated, then correct it, and back it up w/ your added info. ~have a great day |
| Posted by: GymFrk May 30 2004, 04:37 PM |
| I have tried the 1 gram to 2 gram of protein per body weight and i have tried less than that. From my experience, i have had greater gains with less protein. i currently 6'5 and I weigh 235 lbs. I only consume around 160 to 180 grams of protein a day over 7 meals. some of my friends that consume much more protein than i, have experienced kidney stones. did the extra protein cause this? could be. the doctors said more than likely that was the reason but as we all know, doctors dont know everything. i'm in no way an expert ,im just going by what i have researched and from my own experience. if you feel the protein formula works for you, i say go for it. We can sit back and tell you how to do this and how to do that but bottom line you have to experiment for yourself. we are here to just give you some input from our experiences. you have to decide what you get from each of our comments and how you apply those ideas to your own life. LOL didnt mean to get all philosophical Anyways, Good luck with your training |
| Posted by: Diana28913 May 30 2004, 06:27 PM | ||
bravo william, i believe you hit the bull's eye ! what works for one, may not always wk for another. |
| Posted by: lovetoeat May 30 2004, 06:33 PM | ||||
The point is, there is no way of figuring a general # of protein for everyone, that's why I asked where your number came from. If this is just some random number you've pulled out of thin air, fine, state that is the case, if not please "back up" your recommendation. |
| Posted by: Diana28913 May 31 2004, 06:31 PM | ||
is anyone playing Russian Roulette here? lolol, and no recommendations are given only my input and thats it. the body can metab. 20grams worth, and others say diff. (as i posted) and are entitled to disagree all they want. liquid isolated whey protein greater than 20grams are more absorable, than some other forms of protein. as a general guideline, the body in general does have values meaning, what has become the acceptable amt and what limitations it can/cant handle . but these values also diff from person to person. here i'll back this up for you: acceptable blood pressure is measured at 120/80 mmHg. not all ppl have this measurement, its only a guideline, not written in stone. so, if 20 grams is given as a guideline for being metabo. that doesnt mean its number is written in stone either. only an a value that is considered to being the norm. lol ~have a blessed day ! |
| Posted by: J-manL May 31 2004, 09:09 PM | ||||||
I don't think there has ever been any evidence to show how much protein a person can digest in a meal or each hour. If someone knows of some references then maybe you can fill me in. |
| Posted by: J-manL May 31 2004, 09:12 PM | ||
On average, if you're kidneys are functioning properly, you should not have any problems with excess protein intake. |
| Posted by: Diana28913 Jun 1 2004, 12:06 PM | ||
am glad you agree J-manL, thats why i stated "if kidneys cannot filter out......." otherwise, its ok. |
| Posted by: Diana28913 Jun 1 2004, 12:14 PM | ||
hi J-manL, you said something pretty interesting. i have been told that the metab. of protein is only 20 grams per hour, while others do say differently. thing is, somewhere i do believe there is evidence that supports a guideline of protein that is absordable. reason is, excessive amts of protein can be converted into glucose and if unused is then stored as fat, just as unused carbs are. so, if unused amts of protein can be stored as fat, wouldnt you say that their must a rule of thumb of how much protein is therefore metabo? i find it an interesting topic. i'd like to hear your input on it. |
| Posted by: 4everyoung Jun 1 2004, 02:50 PM |
| the rate of digestion for protein is based on an individual basis. and the rate at which protien can be absorbed depends on the protiens, itself, staight whey is quickly abosorbed by the body, but blended proteins are much slower. even steak or chicken has it own rate. the body also adapts to imposed demands, if you eat a higher protein diet you body learns to utalize the protein more efficiantly then the average person. to put a number of grams per hour is useless, unless you know the individuals normal protien intake, rate of paristalysis, height, weight, LBM and so on. and even then it is very hard to come up with an accurate number. stick with 1.8-2.2 grams of protein per kg of bodywieght per day. |
| Posted by: J-manL Jun 1 2004, 09:21 PM | ||||
Well, I'm no expert but I'll tell you what I do. I usually take in at least 1.2-2g of protein per pound of LBM depending on if I'm cutting or bulking. Reason being is that I like to make sure I'm getting in enough protein. Any excess that converts into glucose will be used for energy anyway. If I eat too many carbs then I get fat (being the former fatty that I used to be). So, more protein allows me to stay lean and supplies energy if needed. With that said, I usally get in around 70-120g of carbs when dieting and 230g of carbs or more when bulking. Another point, protein has a higher thermic(thus more calories burned) effect then carbs because of the conversion process into glucose and because of meat being harder to break down by the body. Carbs also cause higher insulin levels then protein so that is another factor when trying to get and stay lean. |
| Posted by: Diana28913 Jun 3 2004, 03:37 PM | ||
hi J-manL, you make alot of sense. thanks for the added info ! ~stay blessed |
| Posted by: Richard Hunt Jun 15 2004, 12:43 PM |
| I have been curious about this and looked for some info on the net. I ran across the website http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hsn_artcls_proteinmyths.html If you'll notice Myth #2 he has a reference by "If you could only assimilate 30 grams of protein at a time, why would researchers be using in excess of 40 grams of protein to stimulate muscle growth?". I looked up that reference on the net and read it. Here it is: Post-exercise net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered amino acids. Tipton, Kevin D., Arny A. Ferrando, Stuart M. Phillips, David Doyle, Jr., and Robert R. Wolfe. Metabolism Unit, Shriners Burns Institute and Departments of Surgery and Anesthesiology, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, TX 77550 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- APStracts 5:0272E, 1998. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We examined the response of net muscle protein synthesis to ingestion of amino acids following an bout of resistance exercise. A primed, constant infusion of ring-[2H5]phenylalanine was used to measure net muscle protein balance in three male and three female volunteers on three occasions. Subjects consumed, in random order, one L of: 1) a mixed amino acid (40g) solution (MAA), 2) an essential amino acid (40g) solution (EAA), and 3) a placebo solution (PLA). Arterial amino acid concentrations increased [sim]150-640% above baseline during ingestion of MAA and EAA. Net muscle protein balance was significantly (p<0.05) increased from negative during PLA (-50_23 nmol(min -1(100mL leg volume-1 ) to positive during MAA (17_13 nmol(min -1(100mL leg volume-1 ) and EAA (29_14 nmol(min -1(100mL leg volume-1). Since net balance was similar for MAA and EAA, it does not appear necessary to include nonessential amino acids in a formulation designed to elicit an anabolic response from muscle following exercise. We conclude that ingestion of oral essential amino acids results in a change from net muscle protein degradation to net muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise in humans similar to that seen when the amino acids were infused. Received 18 August 1998; accepted in final form 30 November 1998. APS Manuscript Number E378-8. Article publication pending Am. J. Physiol. (Endocrinol. Metab.). ISSN 1080-4757 Copyright 1998 The American Physiological Society. Published in APStracts on 18 December 1998 I decided to e-mail Stuart M. Phillips (found his e-mail address associated with some other studies) and here is what I asked him: I have read that the body can only digest around 20 - 30 grams at a time. I guess what I mean by "at a time" is drinking down a protein shake. I noticed you were involved with a study where subjects were given the following: 1) a mixed amino acid (40g) solution (MAA), 2) an essential amino acid (40g) solution (EAA), and 3) a placebo solution (PLA). I suspect that how much the body can handle at one time may depend on when it is taken, the health of the individual and the type or types of protein (whey, casein, etc) among other things. But, in general does it make sense to try and put a number on how much one can take at a time? Here is his answer: Richard, Not sure, have we ever met? You will notice that in the study you refer to that in susequent studies the group I was working with has achieved similar responses with only 6g of EAA. That is, from what we can see now, a dose as large as 40g of EAA is far too large to stimulate a response that can be achieved with only 6g. Some data that we have now obtained suggests that whey+casein blend in a ratio very similar to that found in milk is the optimal to stimulate protein synthesis - bottom line all those purified shakes are likely too large. Insofar as I can see one need not ingest more than 15-20g of protein at any one time. Some studies for you to look at: Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 Mar;35(3):449-55. Independent and combined effects of amino acids and glucose after resistance exercise. Miller SL, Tipton KD, Chinkes DL, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12618575 Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Jan;284(1):E76-89. Epub 2002 Sep 11. Acute response of net muscle protein balance reflects 24-h balance after exercise and amino acid ingestion. Tipton KD, Borsheim E, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12388164 Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Oct;283(4):E648-57. Essential amino acids and muscle protein recovery from resistance exercise. Borsheim E, Tipton KD, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12217881 Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11440894 Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2001 Dec;33(12):2044-52. Creatine-dextrose and protein-dextrose induce similar strength gains during training. Tarnopolsky MA, Parise G, Yardley NJ, Ballantyne CS, Olatinji S, Phillips SM. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11740297 Best of luck with your training. Regards, Stuart Sorry so long, but just wanted to share this with everyone. |
| Posted by: moveyourmass Jun 15 2004, 09:48 PM |
| Guess the 42 grams in my meal replacement is wasted ay? It does not make sense that the body only digests only 30 grams. Totally false |
| Posted by: Diana28913 Jun 15 2004, 10:12 PM | ||
hi richard, bravo !! you put a smile as wide as the ocean on my face. thanks for your input. it was most enjoyable to read. i never believed the body could matab. more than 20 grams at a time, but still will undoubtly differ. |