Arachidonic Acid

Actually it's worth more than the price.

Anyone who didn't get great results with X-Factor was probably not following the proper diet and supplementation guidelines. For me, X-Factor was better than trans 1T/4AD.

So what's your point? Creatine is naturally occurring in meat, but peeps is still chugging 10g a day for increased muscle and strength.

Yes. It is found in animal products. The only way you'll get comparable amounts of AA as found in X-Factor from animal products though is if you're fond of organ meats. Organs meats like liver (not dessicated liver) and heart are chock full of AA... that is if you can stand to eat them everyday.

No, it is not the same as nut oil. Actually, the name is very fitting if you understand what arachidonic acid is and how it works. It is most certainly worth the money.

AA is an omega-6, but do not simplify this complex fatty acid. You cannot get it from vegetable oil as some people like to think. Arachidonic acid is one of the most potent factors in muscle growth enhancing the functioning of testosterone, insulin, IGF, and other hormones.

In my experience (and the experience of many others), X-Factor is the one product that will give you steroid-like results (god forbid I even think it ) without the side effects of steroids. In fact, the elusive "lose body-fat while gaining muscle" is actually possible while supplementing with AA.

bump

holly crap will try to get a botle as soon as posible to see how it works on me

Yes, you can get AA from the fat in red meat but the amount found in consuming fat isn't significant enough for weight training purposes. It must be supplemented if you want AA to have a noticeable effect on muscle building.

you had an alergie to somme chemical copounds in the peanut not the whole peanuts !


since they can be possible to see this C.O can forget to ...

Considering past posts from this guy, like this: not sure about sly, but I saw an ad on www.prosource.com saying he answers on there, he advertises for them, I read a few and he didn't give any good replies, just the general eat more, keep up the good work bs. I wanted to ask him what his AAS cycles are like but I knew it would be a waste of time. You can still get better info from this forum. I think lclock is still a troll with no credibility and he should be banned!!!!.

Hey crusher, why don't you just keep to yourself and let me post without unwarranted comments from you. If you don't like what people say on forums, then stay out. I can name lots of members here, and other forums, that lack credibility because they clearly work for the company but you don't hear me whining. Why do you make the request that I get "banned"?? Becasue you don't like what I have to say? Get real.

Yeah that helps me a lot. I am really satisfied with your response, specially you being a 1Fast400 rep.

if its shit then why sell it?

Yes I am a moderator at there Body Of Science message board but I am not a paid employee of the company and do not get any compensation, minus a free copy of Anabolics 2006.

Yes, X-factor does work and I think it is a good alternative anabolic for people to use if they want to. It offers a non-hormonal anabolic alternative to people that don't want to use hormonal anabolics.

Yes, you can argue that it is a little pricey, depending on what you consider to be pricey that is. I do feel it is a good possible supplement for certain people but it's not for everyone.

Dude, BN is in the busniness of making money, not selling only the products that are worthy.

Consumers should take it upon themselves to find out if a products is worth the $$ or not.

Sadly, at the end of the day this is a businses in which bills need to get paid. People have the right to make their own choices. I started out optimistic and used to be very selective in what I carried. Then as I grew, bills needed to get paid. I used to not carry muscletech believe it or not.

Um, you are more pro xfactor than anyone I've seen in quite some time, sorta odd. Anyway, I donated over 1000 dollars worth of Xfactor for a trail a long time ago. Considering the enormous amount of money that was needed to dose the way it was vs the results that were gotten, I call it crap.

It is simply a personal opinion. Also, I hate bill, that liar that owns the company. He used to talk about how great formestane was and how it was going to bury 6oxo into the ground. Patrick gets his 6oxo patent in the next few weeks. Bill claimed (and you can search it on bb.com to see it true) that he was going to do this grand study on formestane, which he never did. Bill has calmed down quite a bit, but back 2-3 years ago, he was a hot head that couldn't control himself. He called me a few times in the past screaming his brains out. His wife had to control him, it was quite funny. He is a disturbed man.

I responded that way bcuz of the kind of response that I got, just a straight "don't buy it". I do appreciate ur honesty and opinion though, thanks. Well I think I can now make up my mind from what was said in this thread after my previous post. Man this thread is getting hot!!

You are right, it is a personal opinion...I agree with that totally. And that is the exact reason in which I came in and tried to give some info. Your personal opinion is "don't buy it", and I respect that. Just because you don't like it though, doesn't mean everyone will not, because like I said, from what I have seen, most have. My opinion is that it worked, and I enjoyed it, or I would not be a rep for Molecular. Another reason is that I find Catherine and Bill to be very nice people, and I am very interested in learning more about arachidonic acid. You have your opinions, and I have mine. As I said, I mean no disrespect in my posts...just trying to inform people. As a matter of fact, I've ordered from here many times and have had very good experiences with your website. I just don't want people to swayed because of a personal vendetta...As you said, you and Bill don't get along..and that is fine. And whether your comment was fueled by a personal vendetta or not, as you said, everyone has an opinion, so let's leave it to them to decide.

Jeff

Yes it is true that PGE2 stimulates growth factors that stimulate angiogenesis and thus provide an avenue for cancer to metastasize. (however in muscle these same growth factors no doubt stimulate vascularity)

However you have to realize that the conditions that favor excessive anaerobic stimulation amplifying the effects of PGE2 in tissues other than muscle have nothing to do with Arachidonic acid itself, but rather a depletion of a downstream fatty acid called DHA (omega 3).

See it's the loss of "regulation" by DHA that causes all the negative effects of AA in places we don't want them to occur. How does this happen? Well in sedentary people (who don't exercise and thus don't have high turn over of AA) any deficiency in DHA will be "corrected" by an enzyme in the body called delta 4 desaturase.

What this enzyme does is "help" fill the vacancy left by any lack of dietary DHA by stimulating the conversion of AA into a DHA "replacement" called DPA (docosapentaenoic acid). Now this is where your problems really begin. Because DPA being an omega 6 fatty acid does not provide any "brakes" like DHA does.

AA is a stimulator of cellular activity. As a matter of fact as long as there is some DHA around it will stimulate the sodium/potassium pump just enough to promote beneficial energy metabolsim that recycles anti-oxidants via alpha lipoic acid cycling back and forth between dihydrolipoic acid. When you go overboard with strategies aimed at replacing AA with EPA you lose this benefit and that's probably why excess EPA is known for lipid peroxidation and vitamin E depletion.

Now just because inflammatory mechansims aren't occuring in the rest of your body doesn't mean they won't be occuring in muscle. One reason I believe is when you train a byproduct of glycolyis (anaerobic metabolism) called inositol is formed. As inositol formed from "localized" anaerobic metabolism (muscle contractions) becomes incorporated in tissues as "phosphoinositol" (which AA is preferentially bound to) it can stimulate calcium release from the sarcoplasmic reticulum. This calcium release jumpstarts a lot of mechanisms which force adaptations.

So why should someone consider supplementing with AA? Well definitely if you are an
active person and working out you'll have a higher than normal turnover of prostaglandins in skeletal muscle. Stress/dieting also reduces your bodies ability to make it. Making sure that Arachidonic acid is replaced allows further growth adaptations to take place. Furthermore it has been shown that the ratio of AA to Dihomo-gamalinoleic acid is correlated with insulin sensitivity.



I was skeptical myself of this supplement when I heard about it in August/september of 2005, but since using it I have been extremely impressed. (obviously because I decided to become a rep for molecular nutrition)

P.S. I fully expect someone to now suggest just taking DHA. Well that will work if you are a sedentary person, but if you are an athlete or someone training you have to take into account that your turnover of AA is way higher than a sedenatry person's these general population studies are based on.

Have you looked at the review section yet?

http://www.1fast400.com/reviews.php

sorry but this is a really crappy attitude

I think it is a very good attitude. How many businesses have you run Nemesis? Oh I forgot, you can't even make your own mind up to eat an apple or not

You are weird. Sometimes I really want to find out where you live and sit out on your lawn eating a pallet of canned tuna

At least you didn't get your laughter deleted yesterday by the mods. I can't believe they deleted my post that only said:

"ROFL "

Really, that's all that was in the post! Go figure.

It's like the mods are going around saying

"No laughing! Hey you LAUGHTER PROHIBITED"!

I know X-factor is more proven for building mass, but honestly I've found it's effects for cutting far superior to my previous 9 years of using fish oil for this purpose.

Actually during periods of dieting (combined with weight training) is when I think you are most suspectible for depleting yourself of AA and you definitely need this essential fatty acid.

As far as other supplements go there are lots I don't like or think are worth the money, but this one definitely has it's place. It's just too "CORE" to so many of our goals as bodybuilders to dismiss.

Could you cry about it some more? I had no idea or proof that this went on, so refrain from dubbing your question on the "mods".

Thanks

There is a study on Elite wrestlers showing BCAAs effective http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9059905&query_hl=5 although the dose was very high. I remember at the time I pulled the actual article thinking to myself I'd need something like 50-60 grams per day. At the time I was about 220 lbs so by my recollection the dose must have been .6 grams per kilogram.

Anyway, back then 6 years ago there really wasn't any affordable BCAA supplement out there so I gave up on the idea. Still this would be quite expensive to do even today.

BTW, If anyone is worried about BCAA degradation I'd think twice about using PPAR alpha agonists like high dose fish oil http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15173434&query_hl=22 because they increase liver degradation of BCAA.

Personally, I think an EAA product (flavored nicely like Xtend) would be worthwhile for cutting and general use mainly because it would reduce the acid load your body has to deal with. Actually that's how I think EAA supplements work as far as how they reduce total body breakdown.

that is interesting

Why do you disparage X-factor when it is a product you sell? I thought you prided yourself in being a business man first. It seems like bad business to talk negatively about your own inventory.

X-Factor is proven anecdotally to be highly effective at building muscle and strength as well as cutting fat in the great majority of cases (most instances of non-responders can be traced to improper diet, supplementation, and/or medications). But I understand anecdotal evidence is hardly even a sliver of the pie that is real proof. Well, I think supplementation requires an anthropological perspective seeing as how the body is not a system that can be fully understood by segregating its components. With that said, the studies on AA can, when taken as a whole, be understood to show how AA is an effective and safe supplement (dosages as high as 1.7 grams per day have been proven safe... that's 700mg more than X-Factor uses).

But instead of arguing, I would rather put X-Factor on the chopping block. If it is okay, I would like to give a full cycle of X-Factor to some reputable members of this board and have them do a log of their experience. If this is not a problem, I can start it up next month. What do you say?

Yes there are contraindications, but the two biggest ones in my opinion (Flax and NSAIDs) are just a matter of common sense.

1. Zealous use of flax causes oxidation and AA is an oxidizable fatty acid.

2. NSAIDS block the release of PGF 2 alpha from muscle cells.


Other contraindications are a matter of perspective and I'm too new of a rep to have had a chance to discuss this with Bill so I can't comment.

I think he meant those with arthritis, asthma, etc, who have been advised to stay away from this sort of product.

Agreed.. but I think you can stack the 2, in which case I would recommend megadosing the BCAA's / Leucine (if someone can afford X-Factor, they can afford to megadose BCAA's)

By the way, thanks for the T-Shirt and Shaker Bottle.. I get a shitload of bulknutrition questions...

While I'm a business man, I used to be on the other side of it. I used to be a consumer of supplements. I would want someone to look out for me if giving advice. I just don't think Xfactor is worth the money. I will refrain from calling it crap. What I meant to say was overpriced. I still maintain that if someone had to spend 50 bucks on a supplement outside of the basics, give me BCAA's. If BCAA's ever came down in cost, it would be one of the most purchased supplements ever.

I still have mixed feelings about heavy dosing BCAAs.

As far as the "acid reducing effects" I mentioned earlier regarding EAAs I'd bet you'd have to dose pretty high to see any real benefits from this. Problem is cost.

Actually now that I think about it I like the idea of an EAA formula with maybe some extra BCAAs. (assuming it would be used in situations where extra BCAA oxidation is occuring)

Ergopharm All-In-One?

I like a lot of Chuck's recs from what I've seen on BB.com and yes most people would probably do better just by getting their diet straight.

Only reason I have mixed feelings on heavy BCAA dosing is that in *some* people (who aren't training enough to increase oxidation) there could be problems with Excessive BCAAs building up and competing with other aromatic EAAs for entry into the brain. You wouldn't want to block out tyrosine/phenylalanine , histidine, or even tryptophan entirely.(actually the "central fatigue hypothesis" centers around this in part, but with respect to one of those aminos-not all of them,)

If you are Elite level and exercising enough this less likely to be a problem.

Their low carb formula would be my pick. Universal EAA stack looks promising as well.


Too bad this stuff costs so much. I'd like to dose them heavy (> 40 grams a day combined with a good training program ) and see what happens.

I'm guessing Bulk EAAs taste similar to Bulk BCAAs or are they worse?

Hey PB, do you have a response to any part of this?

As for the taste of EAAs, I have no idea. I haven't tasted BCAAs either. But, I would likely try an EAA formula before a BCAA formula whenever I should have the cash to layout for a product like that.

Ugh. You can't compare supplementing with BCAA's and taking in whey that contains amino acids (as all protein will) that includes the BCAA's. That's like saying there is no need to take creatine because you eat a piece of red meat once a day.

Do a simple pubmed search. There are studies, legit ones, backing BCAA's.

Definitely.

Obviously certain supplements can't be used with X-Factor because they inhibit its effectiveness. Aside from that, anyone with inflammatory condition (such as asthma, arthritis, various recovering injuries, etc) should not use the product because there is potential for aggravation. Also, because X-Factor increases AR density the is a small potential for aggravated hairloss in those who are prone to it. Though I do know of several users who have hairloss that did not experience increased hairloss with X-Factor.

There was a unique incidence of 1 tester who had preexisting DHT related prostate problems and he reported aggravation of those problems. This is likely related to the potential X-Factor holds in increasing total testoserone output (at least one study I know of suggests this).

But overall, cases of adverse side effects are rare and usually only associated with those who already have a condition. Obviously, this is a supplement for healthy, hard training athletes. And for them, X-Factor is a very safe, all natural, non-suppressive supplement.

Well, it's refreshing to know that you still remember what it is like to be a consumer in this industry. There is a lot of misleading "advice" out there. I think we were all victims of Muscletech at one point or another .

I understand your viewpoint. I take it as my responsibility to try and prove that X-Factor is worth the cost. I wasn't always a believer in it myself. I remember when it first came out and I did some quick research on AA. I believed the stuff was poison. But, last year in Feb. when Bill held the massive X-Factor trial and I was one of teh many chosen, I delved deeper into the AA conundrum. The combination of the information I found plus my experience with the product turned me around. I was promoting X-Factor for about 6 months before Bill ever approached me with the offer of becoming a rep.

BCAA is definitely a great supplement. I don't think it's expensive at all... at least not when bought in bulk. A kilo for ~$50 will last quite a while and is certainly worth the money.

You would go low-carb with All In One? I think it's a jip. It's the same price as the regular version but lacking the Vitargo (waxy maze starch... or something). I would want those carbs.

Bulk EAA tastes much worse than BCAA. But some Koolaid and stevia cover it just fine.

thats from your own article section my friend

youre the only one then....

There are countless people who have done this on Chuck's diets.

I am one of them.

Chalk another one up.

We have been looking into how X-Factor is actually potentiated by DHA. EPA is what gets in the way. There are several studies and some user experince to suggest that using a DHA supplement with X-Factor not only reduces the small chance of possible risks, but also increases effectiveness. But we don't know for sure about that one yet.

I agree completely that people can build muscle and lose fat with the right diet and training. I've done it using no other supplements but whey protein and multivitamin. The sad fact is that teh majority of people don't have that kind of discipline. But when that discipline is combined with X-Factor, you get some spectacular results.

I have never been on one of Chuck's diets, but I have been able to achieve this on my own diets, in fact its the ONLY way I gain weight, I don't "bulk" and the only reason I would ever have to "cut" is if I did a contest. Nemesis, you countinue to show your lack of intelligence in every post.

Sounds like a good idea.

Yes, in fact I do. It's makes my dick large and in charge.

Yep, there is potential for that. It is what makes eggs such a perfect muscle food. Not only do they have fair amounts of AA, but also DHA which I mentioned earlier might potentiate the actions. Before I started using X-Factor, I experimented with a diet that included large amounts of fatty, animal proteins which amounted to about 8-10 eggs per day (plus lots of beef, cheese, etc). I had great gains off of it and they were very lean gains.

But with the egg yolk option for obtaining AA, there are a few things to consider. 1) is that there is approximately a 25% degradation of AA after cooking. This would probably go up depending on how they were cooked. 2) many people are afraid to eat that make cholesterol. 3) eggs be a whole food nutrient levels will fluncuate... you'll have no way of knowing for sure how much AA you're getting. 4) I haven't actually done the math on it, but I wonder if it is really less expensive.

If you wanted to get AA from whole foods the way to go would be organ meats. Organ meats are the must AA abundant food bar none.

But I don't know if it works perfectly. I recently got a PM from a guy on BB.com who had done a cycle of X-Factor and loved it. He then tried to replicate the results by eating an amount of eggs that was estimated to equal the amount of AA in X-Factor. He said that the results were not comparable to X-Factor. But then again, that was just one person.

this would indicate that it is not advisably to eat large amounts of whole eggs / fatty meat when supplementing with efa's?

No, it wouldn't mean that.

What's your reasoning? Maybe I'm not getting what you're saying.

there is no need to become offensive, this is a discussion forum and as such people share different opinions. nevertheless you should watch certain rules of politness. your behavior just shows your lack of education.

so what you are basically telling me ist that - you, an advanced lifter, in good shape, with good diet and training plan - can now gain muscles and lose fat at the same time by miracely changing your diet? well, i am sure everybody on this forum loved to know the secrets of your sucess

well if you should avoid efa's when supplementing aa and you are trying to reach high lvls of aa by food...

I get ya. Yeah, if you're trying to get the X-Factor effect through food then the same guidelines for supplementing X-Factor should be observed.

Step one... stop worrying about an apple preworkout

Everybody who counts, does know the "secrets of my success." Do you share a computer with someone? I hate continually bringing this up, but how does somebody who a couple months ago was asking if he should eat a fucking apple or not suddenly become a know-it-all?

And if you don't like my attitude, shove off, I could care less.

Just think.... $200 in EGGS who needs AA now?... I pay $1.88 for 18 eggs soooo i could get 106 cartons at 18 eggs a piece = 1908 eggs

You would definitely be one stinky bastard.

Hey B... don't forget he's at his genetical limit

hahaha ... I was actually thinking about eating more eggs anyways because they're so cheap... now I have another reason... I'll save money on my gas bilL!

classic

I would not call them secrets, just paying attention to detail. Very simple...cals in vs cals out. Adjust protien content to meet needs (based on trainng days vs non) and balance insulin levels. It works for all of my athletes.

What maybe the issue here is our opinions on what is burning fat and gaining muscle at the same time. If a person comes to me at 185 lbs and is 16% body fat, yet after 6 weeks is 182 and 11%, I would call that burning fat and gaining lean mass.....No?

As for a study regarding BCCAs vs protien diet/supplementatin, one study [Carli G, Bonifazi M, Lodi L, et al. Changes in the exercise-induced hormone response to BCAAs administration. Eur J Appl Physiol 1992; 64:272-277, compared test, gh and insulin response to exercise with a commercial diet product containing BCAAs, milk protein, fructose and other carbs and fats and the same mixture minus the BCAAs but were replace with equivalent grams of milk protein. The athletes that ingested the meal without BCAAs indicated a decrease in serum free test and shbg. This was believed to be the result of increased metabolic clearance of testosterone. The athletes with BCAAs, showed no reduction in the hormones noted and they were actually increased following the rest period. They concluded that BCCAs provide a direct anabolic effect on muscle proteins during exercise. In addition, they also noted the anticatabolic effect of BCAA supplementation indicated by the test:cortisol ratio, which as we all know, is an indicator of changes in the anabolic-androgenic activity of the body.

This study, and there are many others, points out the advantages and the importance of BCAA supplementation in trained athletes over the use of whole food proteins and even whole food protein supplements.

agreed on that one...but imo 16 % body fat is not really what i call a well trained athlet... i am at 10 % bodyfat what i can keep pretty much the whole year - showing similar results without further assistance and a busy business life is hardly possible...

thanks a lot for posting the information about bcaa, that was exactly what i was looking for!! i will have to do further research on the subject, cause i also read several studies that showed no benefits from bcaa supplementation...will have to do some research on that one...

So in your opinion, a well trained athlete must be 10% bodyfat or under? So if an athlete does not have abdominal muscles, they are not well trained? Is that what you are saying? What about a female, is 16% well trained for a female? Do you deal with top notch athletes on a daily basis? I am just trying to figure out where you comments are derived from....

i am talking about direct pure bcaa supplementation vs protein intake / protein supplementation as i allready said (e.g. whey vs bcaa)

if we are talking about bodybuilding and well trained means in good shape - yes

all human beings do have abdominal muscles regardless of body fat

yes it is, i am talking about male

if 16 % body fat is a top notch athlet for you, then there are plenty of em in my office right now

Ever watched an O-line in an NFL game?

AA=Arguments

Ghost and i can speek from experience

You need to clarify that in the begining that you are only refering to bodybuilding. You said a well trained athlete.

I guess I should not have assumed you would have understood the question, since you are a bodybuilder...my mistake.

Again not stated, you said "well trained athlete"...so females are not well trained athletes?..

I doubt the people in your office are top notch athletes. Now, If they are bodybuilders then hell no they are not "well trained" (based on your comments) and yes I deal with many professional, college and HS athletes that are 16% or more, some are less. % body fat does not dictate whether a person is a well trained athlete.



In regards to offensive linemen....they are very well trained athletes, may not be the most HEALTHY, but we are talking well trained athlete....they are not bodybuilders....

Outstanding reference....Is Jerome Bettis a well trained athlete? Oh my bad forgot we are talking bodybuilders....sorry

That dude is a bear. I met him once in college when I had probably a good 20 pounds on him. He still made me look like a little boy.

And likely runs at 4.6-4.7 at 30+ y/o......

Probably. I know I couldn't do that now. I ran a 4.4 senior year in high school but I know I could not even come close to that now.

Well there aren't a lot of studies on BCAAs showing benefits in humans (at least on Pubmed). The Elite wrestler one I provided was the most significant one out there. Others are unequivocal.

Bear in mind they are "Elite" athletes as well in the study I provided. That makes a huge difference on how these BCAAs get oxidized.

I think the outlook on essential fatty acids involving exercise will change as we learn more.

Very rarely do I get excited by supplements, but this one has definitely peaked my interest.

found this one about bcca vs protein supp

That doesn't seem to really say much about BCAA supplementation. But it does bring up the point that some people make which is to say that whey hydrolysate is the most effective and efficient form of protein; moreso than even increasingly popular free form amino acid blends.

I've always wanted to try a high grade hydro whey but hear it tastes worse than anything, free form EAA included. I know one thing: if it tastes as bad as X-Factor oil then there is no possibility of me drinking it.

But it sounds as if they used a mix of EAA plus NEAA. I wonder how pure free form EAA would stack up against a high grade hydro whey.

I am not seeing where BCCAs are being compared in this abstract...do you have the full artcle that state BCCAs were used? Also, they are not trained, nor even athletes in this study. All they are looking at is absoprtion differences? You must have the full article.