I am thinking of adding Long Jack and Methoxy powders to a weight loss stack I'm assembling. The idea is to maximize my test levels/combat cortisol while dieting (I've just come off two back to back 4 week PH's cycles and I want to give them a break until mid-summer).

Do these compounds work at any appreciable/noticeable level?

I'm easily well over 20%+ body fat just now, and I'm after VAT as much—if not more just now--SubQ. I'm thinking of this as a weight-loss stack

DL-Phenylalanie (actually, I'm more interested in how this will effect my ADD)
7-oxo-dhea
Guggulsterone (T3)
Yohombine HCL
Caffeine
Long Jack
Methoxy

(and would Chocamine be worth adding, or am I starting to shotgun this whole stack?)

Assuming I take the guggulsteron, caffeine and Long John orally--could I use the rest in the Dermobolics Transport Matrix (though I understand it's designed primarily for PH)?

Thanks all,


Ronn

you didnt mention it, but i hope you have some form of PCT right? 8 week PH cycle (though I dont know what you took) would prolly shut you down pretty bad. just hoping you planned on some PCT in there. no idea on the fat burning stuff, wait on the more knowledgeable guys.

Yes, I'm just starting week four of my PCT. I'm I?ve been using a descending dose schedule of 6OXO and 7OXO transdermally--it?s working great. The 7OXO has, in my opinion, really made a difference in keep cortisone under control and helping me maintain my gains (the PCT between the two cycles was only 6OXO taken orally).

Thanks for the concern.

Ronn

I am researching methoxy right now, all that really exists is the patent application. Hopefully I will find more on ipriflavone which is related in effect profile, just weaker. I don't think there's enough research on either of these to conclusively say if they are effective. In both cases you will see a lot of varying feedback.

ok i can tell u that methoxy works very well at 2 grams a day just the effects wear off real quick after u stop taking it..which to me was a indication how potent it was at suppressing cortisol..i got extremely lean at this dose

I was hoping to use the Methonxy powder transdermally, but I read on a thread on the Avent board in which one poster seemed to indicate that was not well advised (that the Methonxy had to be converted to hydroxy in the liver, and skipping the first pass metabolism was simply going to interfere with that). So oral it will be--thanks for the dosage input, it's much appreciated.

Ronn

PS: Thanks David for the honest reply. If you do find some useful information, and article would be well appreciated...at least from the three of us ;-)

Hey Ronn,

Could you give an update on your progress. I am very interested in any weight loss protocol.

Jim

Unfortunately, my progress—and the subsequent steps I have taken--will probably not be very helpful. At 43, I'm finding that my body is INCREDIBLE at adapting it's BMR down to whatever calorie intake I adopt (or exercise I add)—no matter how slowly I adopt it. I lost a whopping 20 lbs in as many weeks...and then stuck fast (which is what prompted my query above). Slowly decreasing calories didn’t help. Adding 600mgs caffeine, 5 mgs Yohombine HCL, San's T3 and pseudo ephedrine (120 mgs extended release)—boosted my energy for a while…but only lost me about 3 additional pounds (I dropped the Long jack, etc. due to the unbearable taste).

I finally tried Usnic Acid, building the dose from 600mgs a day to 1.2 grams--no weight loss at all. In fact, since I was using PH's at the same time to ward off lean muscle loss--I actually gained 2lbs on only 2000 cals a day (high protein, moderate to high carbs--low G.I.--and low fat, hell by the book 2000 cals shouldn't even sustain 222lbs...but I gained weight!).

And 10 grams of fish oil daily...gave me odd smelling burps (but my skin looked great!)

Finally I took drastic measures--figuring I'm better off thinner no matter how I get there than in that unpleasant "extreme risk" the 240+ pounds put my 5' 9.5" frame on my doctors charts.

So--a few days after the failure of the usnic acid--I took off on a 3 week motorcycle trip across country. I kept the EYG weight loss stack, while enjoying the great American Northwest, and cutting my calories to 1200 per day (oddly, on the road I was never hungry). I lost another 14lbs and am now in the low 200lbs range. Upon returning home, I've raised my calorie count by 300-500 cals and returned to 4 days weight training, 45 mins low intensity cardio every AM (brisk walking), and 10-15 mins HIT 3 days a week. We'll see if it stays off, or more to the point, if I can get below 200 lbs (an only be 30lbs heavier than I was 10 years ago).

I know radical, rapid weigh loss is never good and rarely permanent. And indeed when I was in my early 30's, I weighed 170lbs eating 2900 cals per day (high protein, moderate carb, and low fat). But that diet has long since failed to produce results... and I had been slow, sluggish, lethargic, snoring and clumsily heavy for too long.

So I'm trying a radically new idea. I've read that a log term, low-calorie diet is the only proven way to increase life-span via diet (literally slowing the metabolism down, so fewer cells die off). Therefore, I will try and lower my BMR to a "set point" at about 1500-1700 cals per day. Then, I hope an increase to 2000 cals per day will put me into an anabolic state (with the help of some PH's) and I can build some bulk again. I understand how loss of muscle mass (which I am working to keep to a minimum) lowers BMR and causes more resistance to fat loss. But I just know too many guys that weigh close to 300lbs, with HUGE leg and calf muscles (and very respectable back and arms as well) who are...well...300lbs with all that wonderful fat burning muscle mass.

So I frankly don't believe mass and good diet alone will compensate for an aging BMR in everybody. Universal rules are great for building nuclear power plants, but unique is how God made each of us. A BMR that is slowing down for all its worth will defy the rules and hold on to itself for as long as it can. I goes into what I like to refer to as "immortality mode"--where you begin to feel like your body could sustain it's current weight with no food whatsoever.

If nothing else, being 45lbs lighter than I was at Xmas has had a dramatic effect on my lifestyle. More energy, more interaction with people—and I’m just plain more fun to be around (heck, I can take 3 weeks motorcycle trips across country!).

I know that’s probably not what you were looking for, but it's where I am. Weights didn't take enough off, long duration/low intensity cardo didn't take enough off, HIT didn't take enough off (but I did/do feel much better after starting it), the EYG stack didn't take it off--and all of them combined didn't push me past my sticking point at 222. What seems to be bringing me back below the 200 lbs mark (and staring to show real muscle definition) is a modified the EYG stack with an extreme hypo-caloric diet, sustained for an extended period of time. Honestly I can't advise this, because it goes against everything that I know about dieting and weight loss--but what I know just stopped working.

So now I don't know...I just have faith for as long as it lasts.

Ronn

Edited - no source posting

slowing down the metabolisme to increase the life-span.

hell i am naturaly lean and have a prety fast metabolisme: i heal fast . the only way for me to put muscle is lifting+higth calorie+proteine.

My metabolisme is prety fast and i heal prety fast. have a lot with cell count and 49-50% hematocryte(2h/week of low cardio). i hardly never get sick/cold... does it means i am going to die before my fat neiberhood ? he is fat like hell. he is always tired and he is eating cleaner and lesser than me. the only difference betw him and me : i eat satisfacting food hig-carb food whenever i want. hehehe:lol:



But my last blood work (2 month post-chronic-stress) showed a litle bit too mutch cortisol (25mcg/dl normal range is 4,45-22,7). An i am wondering if it worth adding Methoxy Powder to my proteine shake. i am also using Metacort and consedering using PS but it is too expensive.


@RONN if i was u : losing wiethg to fast isnt good ur brain will try to keep weigth into his stable state

Saber,

You sound a lot like me when I was 10-15 years younger: never over 175 lbs, hard gainer, never sick, and I would befuddle doctor’s at how fast bones would heal after I broke them (bad habit I had;-)

And I know what you mean about fast weight loss and the brain thinking the body is starving. Over the past 5 months, I have been having very good success using a low calorie, low fat diet (down from 242 lbs at my heaviest about a year ago to 186.25 lbs. this morning). Much of that weight was lost while ingesting 1200 Cals/day over the summer as I rode my bike around the country--had plenty of other things to think about than food! Likewise I have become a firm believer in "Better living through chemistry." I lost a considerable amount using Trimax (see my log), and am doing quite nicely cycling Clen and a C/E stack at the moment.

I generally cut for 4 weeks then, stop...seeing if my body will maintain weight at 1800-2000 cals a day, or if I start to "plump" again. So far, I've only lost and not gained a pound back.

Since I dropped below 200lbs, I've been able to go off both my blood pressure and allergy medication, I no longer have virtually constant diarrhea, and even my acting skills have improved!

Boy, this is certainly more information than you probably wanted to hear :-o

All in all, at least for me, the use of weight loss chemistry has greatly improved my health and quality of life far beyond any their actual and/or potential side effects have effected me. For someone my age, beginning to feel that they're doomed by genetic twist of fate, there is salvation.

Ronn

i am 21 years old. My grand papa is over 90 years old and still have hairs on his head and his a happy man.
like all of his child. Hope i will be better than him.

@Ronn: any idea why i have many imune celles while having a lot of cortisol ?thought cortisol will kill my imune system and eat muscles...

@Ronn Methoxy sounds goos on paper like HMB,ribose do. But thiere is not a lot user fedbacks about this. Methoxy may put on u somme weigth without changing diet. long therm use may be dangerous


This post has been edited by Saber41194 on Nov 17 2004, 04:25 AM