Ab-Solved & LipoDerm

1Fast400 Forums > Supplements

Posted by: Skate Apr 16 2004, 01:12 PM

I've noticed throughout the board there is just general confusion regarding the use of these two products with regard to what type of body fat you have. Not to mention that answers are so spread out between forum topics & threads. Could we possibly get some straight answers from AVANT members and perhaps pin this thread so that we avoid reposts regarding them? These are the questions I think would basically answer and solve the problem with the confusion. Some may seem repetitive, but clarity is obviously need on this.

First and foremost: The 2 types of body fat - VAT and Sub-Q/SAT

VAT - This type of fat is considered to be the underlying fat beneth muscle. This type of fat is also located around organs as a means of cussion/protection.

Sub-Q/SAT - This type of fat is found directly underneath the skin. This would be the type of fat that is "jiggly" or "pinchable".

Questions for what type of person should use which product:

1) "Fat Guy" - Overweight, high amount of fat around midsection (stomach, love handles or think in terms of "beer gut" and chest fat-"he-boobs") which would consist mainly of Sub-Q fat: Ab-Solved or LipoDerm?

2) "Skinny Guy" - In shape, still has a little buldge around stomach/love handle area that can't be ridden of. This would be more of the VAT type of fat: Ab-Solved or LipoDerm?

3) VAT fat - Ab-Solved or LipoDerm?

4) Sub-Q/SAT fat - Ab-Solved or LipoDerm?

5) Thigh/Hip fat - Ab-Solved or LipoDerm?

6) Arm fat - Ab-Solved or LipoDerm?

If anybody else has questions they think should be added to this thread to once and for all solve this dilema please do so. Thank you in advance to all AVANT members for helping with this.

Posted by: dsade Apr 16 2004, 06:31 PM

#1 type guy would have issues with BOTH kinds of fat, but should definitely start with Absolved in order to get VAT under control. VAT causes major health problems, in addition to making the overall appearance appear worse.

Absolved would be the better choice.

#2 guy - Not necessarily a cut and dried VAT issue. As you describe, VAT is located under the muscle and around organs - so you would have to check the consistency of the abdomen. If the abdomen is soft and squishy, but the circumference of the underlying muscle is decently small, then this would be stubborn Sub-Q fat. And, if the stomach is relatively firm, but the waist is big, it would be a VAT problem.

so....Small waist with a roll of jiggly fat: Lipoderm Ultra
bigger waist, but firm: Ab-Solved

#3 - Ab-Solved

#4 - Lipoderm or Lipoderm Ultra

#5 - Lipoderm of Lipoderm Ultra

#6 - Hard to say exactly what the cause of armfat it. Lipoderm Ultra aids fatloss by many different mechanisms, and MAY be effective targeting this type of fat, bit the reviews and support studies are not in.

Hope this helps a little bit.

Posted by: Skate Apr 16 2004, 07:40 PM

Helps a ton...thank you much!!!

EDIT:

dsade...you said to start out with the Ab-Solved. I'm a big guy...picture the late great Chris Farely. That's about my size right now. If I would start out with A/S how long would you recommend using that before switching over to LipoDerm?

Also, is there a cycle time you recommend? I have a long way to go obivously, so what kind of cycling period should there be if needed?

Thanks again for the help.

Posted by: Skate Apr 19 2004, 08:53 AM

bump

Posted by: shpongled Apr 20 2004, 06:09 AM

I don't know much about these products but I don't think you would need to cycle Ab-Solved

Posted by: anthony giovannone Apr 20 2004, 07:05 AM

OK I have a question that didnt get answered in another topic concerning this.
Im 5'5", recently got real lean down to 150.
Lower abs still stuborn.

here is a pic:

http://www.wtfbracing.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=1234

I dont have a pic with my abs flexed but imagine the top all good.....and bottom the same as the pic above.

Would you suggest lipo or absolved for this?

Posted by: Skate Apr 20 2004, 07:10 AM

QUOTE (anthony giovannone @ Apr 20 2004, 07:05 AM)

From what dsade said I would go with Ab-Solved for yourself since you're as lean as you are. Sometimes the LipoDerm will work better for others than A/S does...but I would say to go with A/S first.

Posted by: dsade Apr 21 2004, 03:05 AM

Honestly, at Chris Farley range I think diet and workout routine should be your primary concern.

Absolved would be better to add in once you got down in weight a bit.

At this point, though, you might want to check out SesaThin to help you drop some weight - but only as a supplemental addition to getting your diet and routine in check.

Posted by: Skate Apr 21 2004, 07:39 AM

QUOTE (dsade @ Apr 21 2004, 03:05 AM)

First off, thanks for all the help on this, d.

Not to get way off onto another tangent in this thread, but is the SesaThin new? I couldn't find it on BN's site. I can pass this question on to Mike or David but if you happen to know offhand lemme know.

Also, I'm already taking the Super EPA fish oil, so if I did start taking SesaThin would I want to drop the EPA from my stack?

Thanks again for all the help!!!

Posted by: dsade Apr 22 2004, 03:00 AM

SesaThin has been out for about a month. It is still being sold as a Beta from our website only.

I have a large shipment coming in this week or next, which will be going to get capped. I believe we will release this immediately to retailers - but it will be pricier than the current liquid SesaThin.

Using Par Deus' guidance, you should cut your EPA/DHA dosage in half.

Posted by: anthony giovannone Apr 22 2004, 08:51 AM

Alright i ordered some lipo ULTRA and dropped my usual cardio for HIIT.
I'll let you all know how it goes.

Posted by: dsade Apr 23 2004, 01:51 AM

QUOTE (anthony giovannone @ Apr 22 2004, 08:51 AM)

Alright i ordered some lipo ULTRA and dropped my usual cardio for HIIT.
I'll let you all know how it goes.

Are you going to keep a log somewhere, or just report back with overall results?

Posted by: CGETZ Apr 23 2004, 06:24 AM

QUOTE (anthony giovannone @ Apr 22 2004, 08:51 AM)

Alright i ordered some lipo ULTRA and dropped my usual cardio for HIIT.
I'll let you all know how it goes.

Anthony, I ordered some ab-solved. I'll let you know how that works for me, you do the same.

Posted by: Caleb Stone Apr 26 2004, 06:00 PM

QUOTE (dsade @ Apr 21 2004, 03:05 AM)

A male who is Chris Farley fat would benefit hugely from Ab-Solved, as far as health -- it would probably help with body composition, but when you are in that state, diet and exercise are going to overwhelm almost anything else.

SesaThin would also be quite useful, in the same ways.

Posted by: KP55 May 3 2004, 11:56 AM

I just got lipo-ultra that i wanted to try out b/c I have the Sub-Q fat i want to try and lose. My question is on dosage, I mainly want to lose the fat on my stomach, some love-handles, not too bad, and some on my chest. Is two on my stomach, one on each side and one on each pec the right dosage?

Posted by: dsade May 4 2004, 04:48 AM

Looks good.

Posted by: KP55 May 4 2004, 08:40 AM

One more thing, I know i need 3-4 grams of fish oil a day, but my caps are 1 g each, but the dha is 130mg and the epa is 180mg. my question being do i just take 4 caps/day and or am i trying to get 4 g of dha and epa combined and would i have to take like 13 caps a day? I'm guessing the correct is the 4 caps a day as the 13 caps seem a little outrageous, just need that clarified tho, thanks

Posted by: Skate May 4 2004, 09:14 AM

You want to be getting 1-4g a day of EPA/DHA. Sounds like the pills you got are pretty low in that area, so yes you would be needing to pop a boatload of them a day.

I would recommend going with the Super EPA from Now Foods. For 2 gels, it contains 720mg of EPA and 480mg DHA. It's a better bang for your buck too. They may look for pricey, but once you break down the cost to mg content it's a better deal.

Ok, now I need an question answered since we're on the subject of oils now. I was looking over David's article again to verify the above. If you're targeting say 3g a day, which mg/g content to you go by regarding the EPA/DHA? Going by the EPA % you would be looking at taking 8 gels a day for 2.8g. In that case, you would then be getting 1.9g of DHA (hope my math is right...it's still early).

Don't want to go off on a tangent since this thread is about Ab-Solved and what not, but if anybody knows please post.

Posted by: KP55 May 4 2004, 09:31 AM

Well then guess i ordered the wrong fish oils

I got ON's brand b/c they were cheap and i thought i only needed to take 3 or 4 a day. Thanks for the info tho

Posted by: Skate May 11 2004, 08:37 AM

QUOTE (KP55 @ May 3 2004, 11:56 AM)

IMO sounds good. Just try and split the application time around 12 hrs apart.

Posted by: KP55 May 11 2004, 10:17 AM

yeh i've been doing that, lost an inch off my stomach in the first week! upping my lipo-6 ephedrine HCL dosage to 6caps of lipo-6/day and 3 caps Eph. HCL/day

Posted by: skII Feb 14 2005, 10:21 AM

Hi,
I've just bought LipoDerm-Y and AbSolved.
I'm hoping to lose some fats around my waist(think they belong to the jiggly/pinchable fats) so i assume i'll be using LipoDerm-Y?
my wife was hoping to trim her thighs which were thick from past years training for volleyball. i can't seem to pinch any fats, though they are THICK and cellulite is getting obvious. which is recommended for her?

Posted by: DarkAngel Feb 14 2005, 10:31 AM

QUOTE (skII @ Feb 14 2005, 10:21 AM)

I believe you want to use absolved on your stomach and love handles, and your wife should try the lipoderm-y on her thighs.

Posted by: GuardDog Feb 14 2005, 10:51 AM

I always thought Avant should just end all the confusion of what product goes where and make a clear cut picture of a person and the products pointing to the different parts of the body for where it goes....but that isn't that simple either because of the way the body stores fat.

Posted by: Caleb Stone Feb 15 2005, 10:05 AM

QUOTE (GuardDog @ Feb 14 2005, 10:51 AM)

Yeah, the problem is that it is much more complicated than doing a color coded map of the body regions where each should be used.

We are doing a Q&A specific to this as we speak. It won't be simple but it will cover so many different scenarios that most people should be able to make the right choice if they just take the time to go through it.

Posted by: DarkAngel Feb 15 2005, 10:23 AM

I think you should make up a flow chart of information to help people select their product. You know a question that leads to a few more until you know what you would recommend...that would help people a lot, and just send them to the question php page and they should be able to get to their answers, instead of sending people to a complex Q/A, unless that's what they ask for.

Posted by: GuardDog Feb 15 2005, 10:28 AM

Cool, I can't wait to read it. So is the Q&A going to be here or over at AL, hopefully both. If it is here, is it going to be in the articles section or placed as a sticky, rather than a regular topic. The reason I ask is because as a regular topic thread it would eventually get lost and people would ask over and over still. There are 100's of posts covering this material about your products and how to use them, but like you said, people fail to read them or even do a search.

Posted by: skII Feb 15 2005, 10:33 AM

yup. thought it would be hard to do so too, since the fat deposit varies individually. my wife, for example, had thick(fat?) thighs from past training and they don't feel pinchable/jiggly. but they are definitely fat. had a hard time trying to determine if it's VAT or Sub-Q.
i, have some pinchable fats with bit of love handle, and the abs seems bloated, had a hard time deciding too.

She will be starting with LipoDerm-Y tomorrow onwards, her thighs measures 47cm as of 15th Feb.
Training Schedule:
Mon-kickboxing
Wed-Aerobis
Tues,Thurs-30mins jog

I'll be starting with Absolved tomorrow, my waist measures 80cm as of 15th Feb.
Training Schedule:
Mon,Thurs-Chest,Biceps
Tues,Fri-Back,Legs
Wed,Sat-Shoulder,Triceps

*I'm on a bulking cycle
*My wife is on a low caloric diet

#choose centimetres over inches as measurement due to the smaller scale which will make any improvements easier to notice.

Will be updating in another week's time.
meanwhile, do let me know if i've make any mistakes.

Posted by: DarkAngel Feb 15 2005, 11:12 AM

You're probably overdoing it.

Posted by: Big Fish Feb 15 2005, 02:50 PM

Which is the best choice for Fatty gyno?

Posted by: DarkAngel Feb 15 2005, 02:57 PM

Nolva =D

Posted by: Caleb Stone Feb 15 2005, 07:32 PM

QUOTE (DarkAngel @ Feb 15 2005, 10:23 AM)

We created a "wiki" which will have exactly such a structure, but it will take time to have information added by us and the members.

It should be extremely useful.

Posted by: Caleb Stone Feb 15 2005, 07:34 PM

QUOTE (GuardDog @ Feb 15 2005, 10:28 AM)

We allow all of our product related info to be used by our retailers, so if they want to add it, it will certainly be available.

I doubt info on products from one of 100's of companies will warrant a sticky. I'd imagine it would be in our product section.

Posted by: Caleb Stone Feb 15 2005, 07:40 PM

QUOTE (skII @ Feb 15 2005, 10:33 AM)

I have to chuckle on the thighs comment. VAT stands for "visceral adipose tissue" -- it is found in your midsection, surrounding the organs. Thus, it does not occur in the legs.

However, Angiotensin II, which is a major player in VAT accumulation (along with cortisol and excess calories), is getting more and more research on it showing it to be possibly/likely strongly involved in bodyfat distribution in general. Spook, our main science guy besides me, definitely leans this way.

Also of interest, way back in the Dan Duchaine/Dirty Dieting Newsletter days, an author who called himself Dharkam wrote and article suggesting that Angiotensin II upregulates alpha2 receptors (which are the main thing known to cause the excess fat accumulation in the female lower body.

So, it is indeed possible that thigh fat in women is influenced by some of the same pathways that VAT is.

Like I said, quite complicated

Posted by: Loki Feb 16 2005, 08:23 AM

When I posed the Dharkam thing to Spook last year he seemed to disagree with a direct Angiotensin II/alpha-2a link, although he may have happened upon new research to the contrary--as that was quite a while back; Lyle is also against this theory if I can recall correctly. Ang II definitely matters for adiposity though though, that's for damn sure.

Posted by: Caleb Stone Feb 16 2005, 09:06 AM

QUOTE (Loki @ Feb 16 2005, 08:23 AM)

Yeah, I was never able to find anything either (though, this was several years ago), and i looked and looked and looked.

I'm thinking he probably found some data that indicted Ang II in fat distribution and made a leap to alpha2 receptors, which did have data on fat distribtion/mobilization in female lower bodies (and, even a study or two in male abdominal as i recall)

Posted by: Armen48321 Feb 22 2005, 06:41 PM

hey guys. i know your tired of hearing the same questions, but i gotta ask this.

i researched as much as i could... and it seems that lipoderm is the way to go for me.

i have a little budge on my abs, which im almost 100% sure is subcutaneous fat, so i just want the definition.

now that ab-solved is out of the picture.... do i go with lipoderm Y or lipoderm ULTRA?

heres some info bout me:

19 years of age
5 feet, 9 inches
175 lbs.
10% body fat [most of which is gathered on my abdominal region]

i usually stack Vasopro with a thermogenic of some sort [by the way im running low on that! when can i get more!?] before my workouts.

i lift 3-4 times a week, recently only lifting lightly because i run about 2 miles and go another mile on the elliptical, total time of about 30 minutes.

my diet is almost always in check, im studying to become a dietician, so most everything i eat is healthy and always a smarter choice for someone trying to cut.

i take essential fatty acids 3x daily. zma formula at night. once in a while a argining/aakg before my workout for better vascularity. i switch up my thermogenics, sometimes i use xendrine efx, sometime i use the redline RTDs or capsules. i only recently tried giving l-carnitine capsules a shot [which might seem like a waste of money, but its not too bad, i work at GNC and i get a nice discount for myself], but im thinking about saving them for when i try one of the lipoderm topicals.

i've also been considering supplementing oral yohimbine meanwhile using the topical. dosage would vary of course depending on which topical i use and which thermogenic i use also [redline has some yo hcl in there too].

i'd appreciate any input. thanks alot.

Posted by: Caleb Stone Feb 23 2005, 10:54 AM

Lipo Ultra.

The only situation I recommend Lipo-Y over Ultra is female lower bodyfat (actually, if you used Lipo-Y with good sucess back in the days before Ultra and Ab-Solved, then not much need to change what works, especially when it is cheaper)

Posted by: Lawn30177 Feb 24 2005, 05:55 AM

QUOTE (Caleb Stone @ Feb 15 2005, 07:32 PM)

QUOTE (DarkAngel @ Feb 15 2005, 10:23 AM)

We created a "wiki" which will have exactly such a structure, but it will take time to have information added by us and the members.

It should be extremely useful.

Any idea when this should be ready?

Posted by: Caleb Stone Feb 24 2005, 10:03 AM

Wiki's are organic. Users add, remove, and edit content. So, no way to know for sure. We are working on expanded Q&A's for all of our stuff, which we will "seed" the wiki with when they are done. That should greatly accelerate the process.

Posted by: Geneticfreak Feb 24 2005, 06:43 PM

I just started using Lipoderm Ultra. Im 8 weeks away from the New England Natural Bodybuilding Championships. I did the same show last year without Lipoderm. Im in the same shape 8 weeks out as i was 6 weeks out last year. This stuff works. I wasn't fat, but i wasn't lean either. This stuff works really well. I like it, and will use it again. Really helps with water retention also so you can get accurate measurements.

Posted by: Lawn30177 Feb 24 2005, 08:21 PM

QUOTE (Geneticfreak @ Feb 24 2005, 06:43 PM)

Did you start with Absolved at all or right to Lipo-Ultra?

Posted by: Armen48321 Feb 25 2005, 05:15 AM

QUOTE (Caleb Stone @ Feb 23 2005, 10:54 AM)

would you mind explaining the differences between how the lipo-Y and the Ultra work?

as a student studying to become a dietician and an employee at a GNC, i get rather curious... not to mention that i like to research before i buy.

thanks alot.

Posted by: GuardDog Feb 25 2005, 07:55 AM

QUOTE (Armen48321 @ Feb 25 2005, 05:15 AM)

QUOTE (Caleb Stone @ Feb 23 2005, 10:54 AM)

Since you like to do research, you could do a search here on the forums, or research over at avantlabs.com since they make the stuff. They have all kinds of articles and writeups on it.
Hope this helps,
GD

Posted by: Caleb Stone Feb 25 2005, 11:02 AM

QUOTE (Armen48321 @ Feb 25 2005, 05:15 AM)

Read the write-up on each, then let me know specific questions, and i will be happy to answer.

Lipo-Y: http://www.mindandmuscle.net/page.php?pageID=15
Ultra: http://www.mindandmuscle.net/page.php?pageID=173

Posted by: Geneticfreak Feb 25 2005, 11:32 AM

I just went straight to lipoderm ultra. I didn't need to loose much. I have a tough time getting extra tight, in my mid ab region, strange i know usually its lower abs. It helped me out. All i can say is make an informed decision.

Posted by: skII Mar 14 2005, 12:05 PM

Hi,
I've been on the Absolved for 3 weeks and only managed a slight improvement on my waistline.
My wife however, experience apparent loss of cellulite and half an inch off her thighs.
I've one problem though, i seems to suffer stomachache with ALOT of gas rumbling in my stomach ever since the use of Absolved. The situation is quite bad, with frequent visits to the toilet with little bowel discharge but ALOT of fart..

on 3 occaions, the pain was sever enough to wake me up in the middle of the night to release the gas...
I'm consuming DYMATIZE Z-Force also, and thought that it was the problem.
i've thus discontinued the product 1 week ago and still experience the problem, until yesterday, when i was too busy to apply the gel. Then i discover that the rumbling stomach was relieved!! not believing the possiblility of Absolved being the culprit, i tried to apply just hours ago, and i'm back to the toilet, with the rumbling stomach...
can anybody enlighten me on this??

Posted by: Caleb Stone Mar 14 2005, 01:06 PM

I can recall 2-3 people over the last couple years mentioning something similar to what you have reported with Ab-Solved.

Nothing really jumps out at me as far as what it would be.