Stack Advice Please Help Guys |
1Fast400 Forums > Hormone/Prohormones |
| Posted by: david broderick Feb 11 2004, 02:06 PM |
| Hey guys, Im a 20 year old male, I weigh 228 lbs, 6'3", according to my scale from Sharper Image I'm about 24% Bodyfat, and my goal is to get more cut and lose fat, gaining muscle never hurts though. Primarily I wanna have a "beach worthy" body. I just got 2 bottles of ergopharm 1-AD (Oral, 100 mg each pill) and 1 bottle of ergopharm Androdiol select 300 (300 Mg each pill, oral). Anyway, I want to stack for a month and I was wondering what type of program u guys would recommend for me to reach my goals, what type of doses to take, how many times a day to take the pills, when, etc. I also have Formasin to take during my cycle and two bottles of 6-0X0 for post cycle. Any help from you guys is extremely appreciated. David |
| Posted by: prolangtum Feb 11 2004, 02:35 PM |
| You may want to pick up one more bottle of 4-ad. But this is what I would recomend: 300mgs ed 1-add 900mgs ed 4-ad 6-OXO-600mgs ed week 1,300 mgs ed week 2 |
| Posted by: prolangtum Feb 11 2004, 02:44 PM |
| Split the 1 and 4-ad into 3 dosages during the day. |
| Posted by: david broderick Feb 11 2004, 03:23 PM |
| thanks for the advice man, I'll go pickup some more 4-AD, Im starting on next monday b/c i know u shouldnt drink on a stack and my gf will want me to drink this weekend for v-times day and everything, thanks again |
| Posted by: lovetoeat Feb 11 2004, 03:32 PM |
| For me personally I never got much from under a gram a day of oral 4-AD, but if you've never used it by all means 900mg is a good starting point. It's also been my experience that topical 4-AD is very much worth the small hassle of applying twice a day. Unless you're ultra sensitive to estrogen I wouldn't think the formasin wouldn't be necessary, may want to hold off unless you start seeing side effects. |
| Posted by: david broderick Feb 11 2004, 03:35 PM |
| Thanks for the feedback man, I just like to play it safe when it comes to the estrogen and stuff, thats why I have the formasin |
| Posted by: david broderick Feb 11 2004, 03:55 PM |
| I'm gonna do some measurements and post my progress for the board from start to end on this stack, I'll have measurements up really soon and you guys can give me some advice on where to concentrate on, I'll keep all posted, thanks for all the input so far, you've got me hyped and ready to go, Oh yeah and I'll be starting on Monday, Feb 16 |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 11 2004, 03:59 PM |
| My opinion... I would use all of the 1-AD over the month, so 400 mg daily. Actually in all reality I would recommend going with 500-600 mg daily but you can always up the dose if/when you do another cycle. |
| Posted by: david broderick Feb 11 2004, 04:11 PM |
| I just worry about using to much, but i trust your professional opinion and its not like I'd have to buy more, is there a big difference between the 300 and 400 mg doses? From anyone that has taken before I'd appreciate feedback, I just try to keep it on the cautious side, but given my age weight etc if u guys think 400 wouldnt hurt i'll go for it |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 11 2004, 04:59 PM |
| Well again my first impulse would be to say 600 mg would be a good starting dose at that weight but staying on the cautious side 400 mg will do and you should still get good results. I haven't tried 1-AD, perhaps someone who has experimented with different doses can offer more feedback. |
| Posted by: david broderick Feb 11 2004, 07:35 PM |
| Took measurements for beginning to end comparison, here they are: chest 45.5" neck 15.5" biceps 15.5" forearms (at widest, below elbow) 12.5" around navel fully relaxed 38.5" below navel at waist (around hips) 37.5" (but i wear a 36, didnt really get that one) legs 26.5" calfs 16.25" I know my stomach is a problem area, trust me i know, any feedback on what else I should work on to look better, more evened out, etc. Let me know, thanks David PS IMPORTANT- I told some guy i was using this stack to lower my body fat and he told me that's the exact opposite thing it'll do, was he right? I was under the impression that it would help me lower my bodyfat (which is at 24% right now and has a ways to go and is my biggest issue) while keeping me from becoming small by adding muscle mass instead. Please if you guys have knowledge about this, let me know. Thanks for all the feedback today alone, this board is great. |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 12 2004, 10:19 AM | ||
It will definitely help lower bodyfat by partitioning calories towards muscle instead of fat. However I would recommend taking it along with a reduced calorie diet (which may be more difficult, as the substances will increase appetite). I would take it along with a moderate dose of ephedrine/caffeine. |
| Posted by: david broderick Feb 12 2004, 11:58 AM |
| Thanks David, do you guys still sell ephedrine here? If not, is there a caffeine supplement you would recommend? |
| Posted by: prolangtum Feb 12 2004, 12:10 PM |
| Vasapro for Ephedrine HCL and Prolab Caffiene pills, or caffiene anyhdrous powder from 1fast400 brand |
| Posted by: david broderick Feb 12 2004, 04:05 PM |
| What type of dosage would u suggest on this stuff? Also, on the site it talks about vasopro ephedrine HCL being for asthma, and says dont use unless diagnosed with asthma, is that just a bunch of bs? Sorry so many questions but u guys have really been a huge help |
| Posted by: prolangtum Feb 12 2004, 04:18 PM |
| Start off with 1/2 a pill vasapro (12.5mgs) and 200mgs of caffiene 3x per day, preferably last dosage not taken after 4 or 5 (as to not interfere with sleep) After a week, you can try upping it to a full 25mg of Ephderine and 200mgs of caffiene 3 x per day, but you really should go over that. I would try to keep total Ephedrine intake under 75mgs, so maybe the second week opt for 12.5mg E/200mgs C 2 x daily, and 25mg E/200mg caffiene 20 minutes prior to workout. |
| Posted by: lovetoeat Feb 12 2004, 04:29 PM | ||
I believe it's illegal to market it for weight loss. |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 12 2004, 10:07 PM | ||||
Yeah, it's an FDA OTC med, different than a supplement, can only be marketed for approved uses. Not something to worry about though. |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 12 2004, 10:15 PM | ||
It depends on how well you tolerate stimulants... start with a low dose, or start with just one substance. Some people (such as myself) don't tolerate stimulants very well, 300 mg or more of caffeine is very unpleasant if I am not accustomed to it. My recommendations would be to work your way up to 50-75 mg ephedrine and 400 mg caffeine. |
| Posted by: 180stitch Feb 13 2004, 07:37 PM |
| I just started the same stack. I am 20 years old, 155, and 7% bf. I have had impressive results so far. I am taking 300mg 1-d, 900mg 4-ad(androdiol select 300), and I am also taking 500mg of milk thistle for the liver. I have gained an amazing 8 lbs in my first 7 days, its truly remarkable. I have had NO noticeable sides yet. All of the gains haven't been rock hard because of the 4-ad, but I am very thin and I really wanted to bulk. |
| Posted by: 180stitch Feb 13 2004, 07:39 PM |
| sorry, thats 1-AD , not 1-d |
| Posted by: Shawn Flanagan Feb 15 2004, 04:05 PM |
| alright man heres the scoop. simply put, you WILL gain fat with what you are taking. there is no way in hell unless you are a very experienced guy, which you see mnot to be (which is ok) that you will lose fat on what you are using. $-ad is bascially the precursor to testosterone, which DOES not decrease fat unless the dieting is very specific. trust me, experience here, not opinion. save the 4-ad till you want to bulk. the 1-ad is the precursor to 1-test, which is fine for losing fat. stack it with 1, 4-ad which is the precursor to boldenone aka equipoise, a far superior fat loss compound. it is available here. try to get the diol version which is far superior to the dione version (bioavailablility/ conversion capability and what not.) any q's, just ask. and remember, if anyone here doesnt tell you that training and diet are number one, they are an idiot. so those things should be prioritized over everything else. get those things straight, then worry about supplements. |
| Posted by: Ronn Feb 15 2004, 05:20 PM |
| From my understanding, ephedrine was origionaly developed as a broncolator for respertory disorders, including asthma. It was later added to things like Seudophed because it likewise worked well as a decongestant. The fact the compund is thermogenic was/is completely beside the point of its origional development. I would assume the site your refering to is selling it as a brocolator, not a thermogenic--and hence can avoid any FDA interference with its use as a "diet pill." Because I have alleries, I often take pseudo ephedrine--and I'm courious if a pseduo e, caffine asprine stack would be as good as the old ECA one? Dristan also contains ephedrine HCL and is widely available OTC. |
| Posted by: david broderick Feb 16 2004, 01:51 PM |
| Just wanted to thank everyone for the feedback, today is day #1, did legs this morning about an hour after taking 200 mg of 1-AD and 300 mg of 4-AD, I dont know if its just me but damn i was workin like a beast, full of energy, hyped about workin out. Start weight is now 230 b/c of weekend, wasnt very good, to much drinkin and food, took the weekend off from exercise to give my body some extra rest, anyway I'll be giving updates every couple of days, I ultimately decided to do the following: 400 mg 1-AD 900 mg 4-AD 1/2 a pill vasapro (12.5mgs) and 200mgs of caffiene 3x per day Lower calorie diet (around 2200 calories, i know it'll be hard but I'm ready) Workout 6 days a week, sundays rest day legs and abs (2x a week) back and bis (2x a week) chest and tris (2x a week) * low cal diet is to minimize fat gain...Im going to keep a close watch on my bodyfat, if it goes up more than 2% I'm going to reduce the 4-AD |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 16 2004, 03:25 PM | ||
Shawn, I disagree with pretty much everything you say (except the last statement), and I'm pretty sure the other experienced/knowledgable people here will agree with me. First, concerning testosterone - it will promote fat loss on balance. The estrogenic conversion will lead to a high amount of water retention, and may also promote fat gain, but the fat loss from the increase in LBM that will occur will far outweigh. Every study I've come across involving testosterone use in human males has reported decreased fat mass - for example, this one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12865477&dopt=Abstract Secondly, concerning 1,4, the diol version is certainly not more bioavailable - at least, according to Patrick Arnold and Bill L. The reason it would be superior is that it may possibly have a lower estrogenic conversion rate, but on the flip side, the feedback on it just isn't very promising. And estrogen, in the right quantity, will have positive effects on mood and overall anabolism. Anyway, I think the stack he is using right now will be quite effective. |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 16 2004, 03:27 PM | ||
Pseudoephedrine will have an effect, but it won't be as effective as ephedrine. |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 16 2004, 03:29 PM | ||
Looks good. Keep us updated. |
| Posted by: david broderick Feb 18 2004, 04:25 PM |
| A bit of an update, today I went to the gym and they were doing free body fat analysis where they pinch, etc. According to this, I am 14.3% bodyfat as opposed to 24% from the scale I bought at sharper image...Don't know why the sharper image scale would be so innaccurate, anyone had any similiar experiences? Im glad I got all my measurements so I can compare. They also gave me my "waist to hip ratio", and it was .87 Not sure if thats good or not. |
| Posted by: prolangtum Feb 18 2004, 04:38 PM | ||
the BF% at home scales are good for sedentary individuals, but for most weight training people they will be off, and they are hardly accurate. |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 18 2004, 05:20 PM | ||||
Yeah. Mine is usually 5-7% above caliper readings. They definitely don't work well for those with higher than normal LBM. |
| Posted by: 004 Jul 4 2004, 09:01 AM |
| after reading trhough many threads, this seems to be the most appropriate one to post in.. i'm about to start a ph stack tomorrow...i think i'm going to use: 900 mg ergopharm adrodiol select 300 (too much for a beginner?) 300 mg ergopharm 1-ad (good ratio to the 4-ad?) for a six week cycle (too long?) and of course a bottle of 6-oxo for post-cycle i'm 25, approximately 170 lbs, i lift heavy 6 days a week...bodyfat is pretty low (visible 6 pack), but i'm not scrawny. i've been weight training off and on for the past 8 years or so, and been serious about it and working out like a beast for the past 9 months or so. my diet and workout routine is pretty good (i'm a cert. personal trainer and nutritionist), but my ph knowledge is very limited. the only supplements i'm taking right now are 2 whey shakes a day and a bottle of ansi's orig. thermo hydroxadrine a day (prewokout). i've read both parts of the 'about ph's' and still have a few questions. my main question is that the potential for acne really concerns me (i've found some useflul info on some of the other ph diadvantages). acne defeats the purpose of taking a ph stack to look great with your shirt off on the beach. can you recommend anything specific to combat this?? also, any recommendations for additional supplements to compliment the stack are welcomed. thanks in advance, Matt 004 |
| Posted by: 004 Jul 5 2004, 12:44 PM |
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| Posted by: shpongled Jul 5 2004, 07:13 PM | ||
1. Lower the dose of 4-AD and raise the dose of 1-AD. 4-AD is the more likely of the two to cause acne. 2. For PCT, instead of 6-OXO, use Nolvadex. You will probably get worse acne from the 6-OXO than you would on cycle. 3. Supplement with pantothenic acid, 5 grams daily and zinc, 30 mg daily on cycle and during PCT. 4. Use some of the OTC topical acne prevention products. However if you use too many they will cause irritation, drying. Benzoyl peroxide and salicylic acid are the best ingredients (I don't think you will find both of these actives in one product so you will have to use two). However these are intended for the face, I don't know how well they will work on the back, etc. 5. If OTC stuff doesn't work you will have to get a prescription drug. |