Creatine Side Affects

1Fast400 Forums > Supplements



Posted by: Yulaw2k Apr 5 2004, 06:07 PM
What do you all think about this lil inccedent?

http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/si...ory/html/160240

Posted by: kwyckemynd00 Apr 5 2004, 11:37 PM
That's pretty gnarly...I wonder what the heck he did wrong. It was all kind of vague thought. Well, now I know what to do if my piss turns black wink.gif

For all of you the link is right here: http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/sited/story/html/160240

if that doesn't work, peice it together like this:
http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/

sited/story/html/160240

Just add those to lines together up in your address bar to form the complete URL.

Anyway, I'd be very curious to hear from anyone who knows anything about that subject, I take creatine, I understand creatine is safe, but this particular case is odd; the guy was growing a second femur!!

Anyway, here's a nice rebuttal to that article, it's about the safety and benefits of creatine: [url=http://www.ontariowrestling.com/creatine.html]

Posted by: Sean Apr 6 2004, 12:16 AM
Kinda scary stuff... but there's so much scientific research proving how safe creatine is. This poor guy must have had some serious medical issue not being able to cope with the additional supplement.

Posted by: powergrudge Apr 6 2004, 01:50 AM
I hate to link to t-mag, but I found an article there that might possibly help to explain what happened in this case.

Here's an excerpt:
QUOTE

Dangerous Creatine?

No, this isn’t the tagline for a new type of creatine, it means that there’s a semi-popular creatine-like product on the market that may actually be harmful to your health. What’s worse is that there are now several copycat products on the market as well! As if that wasn’t bad enough, one of the potentially dangerous compounds (oh yes, there’s more than one!) that this product contains is ergolytic; i.e. something that decreases athletic performance.

This potentially dangerous ergolytic chemical is Guanidinopropionic Acid (GPA), which binds the creatine transporter and plugs it up so creatine can’t be transported into various tissues (similar to the concept of tamoxifen blocking the estrogen receptor, not allowing estrogen to bind). This is a problem, because most of our tissues can’t make creatine so it has to be transported in, and blocked transporters means a reduction in cellular creatine levels.

Bear in mind that creatine isn’t just a supplement, it’s a naturally occurring substance in our bodies that we need to survive! You know the impact of having 20% more creatine, now imagine having 80% less creatine! GPA induced creatine depletion can not only reduce muscle strength after a mere seven days of consumption (Gagnon et al., 2002), but has also been shown to convert fast-twitch muscle to slow-twitch (Ren et al., 1995)! So this substance might make you weaker and slower!

While these consequences should be enough to make you avoid supplements containing this chemical, there’s also a potentially dangerous side to consider: both our hearts and our brains have creatine transporters!!! Any time you start to mess around with our two most vital organs, it can’t be good. Fortunately, the brain seems to temporarily compensate for decreases in energy supply caused by GPA (O'Gorman et al., 1996), but do we really want our bodies to have to adapt to reduced energy levels? Of course not!

We also don’t want our hearts to be affected by GPA supplementation, but they are! In fact, 3 different studies showed that creatine levels in the heart dropped by 80-87% with GPA consumption in rats (Boehm et al., 2003, Neubauer et al., 1999; Horn et al., 2001). Now you can see why it’s nearly impossible to perform human studies using this substance! Clearly, you have to wonder what the manufacturers were thinking when they approved production of this supplement.

"But wait, there’s MORE! Order now and you’ll get another potentially dangerous ingredient for free!" One particular supplement ("SWOLE") combines GPA with another potentially dangerous substance known as Glycocyamine (G-amine). Sadly, G-amine (also known as guanidinoacetate) has been picked up by a few different supplement companies who obviously don’t do any research on what they’re getting people to ingest.

The reason G-amine is so popular (from a marketing standpoint, not from the consumers’) is because it is the precursor to creatine. Just like Testosterone can come from andro, creatine comes from G-amine. The theory is that you jack up G-amine levels and you get a whole bunch more creatine. The really asinine part is that, you can just directly take creatine!

We can’t take Testosterone due to legal reasons, so we have to find other ways to increase its levels—enter prohormones (among other effective things). But for our purposes, there’s no reason to worry about creatine precursors because we can just take the substance directly. The whole precursor concept is really hot when it comes to marketing to laymen, which is where this supplement takes off.

Unfortunately, consuming this chemical seems to have the undesirable effect of elevating blood levels of a substance called homocysteine, which is a very strong risk factor for cardiovascular disease (Stead et al., 2001). Cardiovascular disease is easily the number one killer in the Western World, and the last thing we need to do is increase our risk for it. Conversely, taking creatine decreases homocysteine levels, raising even more therapeutic possibilities for this supplement. As if to spit on your grave, if you’re supplementing with creatine, G-amine may also decrease its uptake by muscles (Zugno et al., 2003).

Sadly, the FDA has already spoken to the company that produces this "combo of harm," because another of its supplements caused liver damage… you’d think that they would have learned. Unfortunately, these substances aren’t just isolated to a single product—they’re popping up in all kinds of different supplements (including some protein powders)! It’s my opinion that products containing either of these substances should be pulled off the market and the formulas changed, but the FDA can’t do anything until harm has already been done. This means that it’s up to us to spread the word about these substances. Most importantly, before you supplement with something, do your research and KNOW WHAT YOU’RE CONSUMING!


And here's the entire article:
http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/295naked2.html


Posted by: CYPHON Apr 6 2004, 02:10 AM
Thats great info. thanks for posting. I am currently using two supps that contain one or both. Im not taking any chances with my health and im dumping them both.

Posted by: James Martin Apr 6 2004, 02:48 AM
He trained hard: two hours each morning and then again in the evening. The regimen was working. At one point, the 5-foot 9-inch Starkovich weighed 215 pounds with 2 percent body fat. His biceps had grown by nearly three inches. When he flexed, the striations in his muscles where visible. He also was dieting hard to bring his weight down and further sculpt his body.



-----------------------
lmao, 2%? 3 inches on the biceps?!! What bloody creatine is he taking?
I've never even heard of a steroid doing that much laugh.gif
Maybe .1 on the biceps wink.gif but 3 inches.....I wonder how much they cut up that story.

Posted by: powergrudge Apr 6 2004, 02:50 AM
Glad that I could help. Spread the word and make sure that no one you know is taking creatine with GPA or G-amine.

Posted by: billyzane1 Apr 6 2004, 07:41 AM
What a bunch of BS

Posted by: shpongled Apr 6 2004, 11:21 AM
This wasn't caused by creatine per se. Creatine is perfectly fine if you have healthy kidneys (as evidenced by quite a few studies, including ones on long-term creatine users). However if you have a kidney disorder or impaired kidney function, creatine can worsen the condition. I am sure that this guy had an existing disorder which may have been exacerbated by his creatine supplementation. If your piss is black you should obviously see a doctor. 2% bodyfat is pretty unhealthy, and that could've been a contributing factor to organ failure as well. He may have had undiagnosed kidney disease. Who knows? Point is that the creatine wasn't the primary cause.

Regarding GPA/GAA. I wrote an article on GAA which pretty much says the exact same thing. Here: http://www.bulknutrition.com/?ingredients_id=39. And yeah, GPA is pretty much the same but worse. I don't think toxicity is a major concern if you are taking extra creatine as well. But the real question is why bother? When you look at the other ingredients in those products (Swole, V12) it's nothing special. You can homebrew it for half the price. Creatine, taurine, alpha lipoic acid, and any other options feel necessary - glutamine, arginine, dextrose, etc. This is my "homebrew creatine replacement" (from an article):

Creatine mix
Now Creatine Powder, 500 g (1/2 container)
Now Dextrose, 2 lbs.
1Fast400 Taurine Powder, 150 g
1Fast400 Alpha Lipoic Acid, 1-2 capsules (taken separately)

This offers 100 servings of 5 g creatine, about 10 g dextrose, 1.5 g taurine, and 300 mg ALA – only the best ingredients, and at about half the price per serving as most "creatine replacement" products. Each serving should be approximately 5 teaspoons.

Posted by: massmonster May 3 2004, 03:47 PM
"...he remembered from highschool when he had tried the creatine..."

Ya, and he had been playing the foosball (Waterboy)

Total BS

Posted by: Clay25188 May 3 2004, 04:33 PM
Creatine or creatinine levels well 9000? huge difference and it's a huge difference in compounds.

Creatinine:
http://www.transweb.org/qa/qa_txp/faq_creat.html
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003475.htm#What%20abnormal%20results%20mean


Posted by: fin fang foom Sep 13 2004, 02:31 PM
A little off from the current conversation topic, but i thought i'd put this post under the creatine side 'affects' forum anyway...

I've noticed that when I take creatine my, uh, libido drops off noticeably. I've heard of this happening to other people but I'm not sure exactly why this should happen, going by what I've read about creatine. (and its definitely the creatine, the only other time i used it was 2 years ago and the same thing happened).

Would an arginine supplement help?

Posted by: lite12 Sep 13 2004, 06:00 PM
What do you mean by libido?

Creatine might positively influence your ability to maintain a firm erection. I've heard of it being used effectively as an erection aid, for example.

There are a lot of other factors that will contribute to a non-functioning member. Stress, poor diet, exhaustion, alcohol, are a few.

If by libido you mean sexual urges then I would rule out Creatine as the problem. Usually, testosterone and/or fatigue are responsible and the effect Creatine has on both of these is nill.

-Lite

Posted by: Tom2 Sep 13 2004, 06:38 PM
gained 3inches on his biceps, 5'9 215, 2%BF, if its true, it wasnt creatine he was taking.......

Posted by: fin fang foom Sep 18 2004, 12:01 PM
Sorry about the vague 'libido' term. Desire was actually not a problem, but physical capability in that department (i.e. being able to get a woody) became somewhat of a problem after i started taking creatine. I definitely am convinced it was the creatine, I stopped taking it a little over a week ago (after being on it for only a week) and the problem has gone away... biggrin.gif

Like I said, the only other time that ever happened to me was 2 yrs ago when i also started taking creatine. No heavy stress in either instance.

I also had a friend's wife (emabarrassingly for him) tell me something like that happened to him when he was taking creatine (more info than i needed to hear, but she totally brought it up on her own). Admittedly, my friend's problem may have had more to do with the crazy wife than the creatine. But it got me thinking that maybe more people have this problem than you would think, but for the most part, guys would rather not talk about NOT being able to get it up, even if they can blame it on a supplement.

Not that I definitely wouldn't use creatine again, it had a lot of good effects, but I'd probably just be sure to stack it with an arginine product next time around. Mostly, I am just curious as to why this would happen, from a scientific standpoint.

Posted by: Benson Sep 19 2004, 07:10 PM

From the article:

"The surgeons began cutting out the dead muscle out of his legs. In its place, new bones began to grow. That, too, had to be cut out, he said. Even now a second femur bone lies close to the skin in his upper left leg. Rapping it with his knuckle, it sounds like a piece of hard wood. It has to come out. There are other bone growths, too. One almost poked through his skin before it was removed."

If creatine can cause the bone growth like this (a whole second femur in less than six moths no less!) it would be one of the most promising and useful drugs ever...

Posted by: kdubs Dec 19 2007, 04:11 AM
true.. that story is fuckin bullshit and if u try to click the links it has been completely 100% removed...


that happened for a reason, creatine is harmless

Posted by: OmniRed Dec 19 2007, 04:42 AM
idiot... its gone cause its posted 3 years ago. Look at the freakin date.

Posted by: ANIMAL333 Dec 19 2007, 11:33 AM
laugh.gif You almost sounded smart kdubs

Posted by: Nanoosh Dec 21 2007, 11:11 PM
hmmmm..

Posted by: Cdubya Dec 21 2007, 11:16 PM
ok

Posted by: Regina06 Apr 6 2008, 04:47 AM
QUOTE (powergrudge @ Apr 6 2004, 01:50 AM)
Clearly, you have to wonder what the manufacturers were thinking when they approved production of this supplement.<br><br><br>
<br>The only thing possible to say here is make sure you know exactly what it is you are putting into your body and what the effects on your body will be. &lt;br&gt; as far as what the manufacturers were thinking about when they approved this supplement - obviously they were thinking about the $ growing nicely in there bank account.&lt;br&gt;There is very little supervision over these supplements unlike the kind of supervision that exists over medicinal products... so one should take extra care and double check exactly what is in the box and what it can do to you.&lt;br&gt;cant stress that enough<br><br><br>http://www.bodybuildersboard.com/

Posted by: Jack-iron Apr 6 2008, 06:08 AM
i have no idea what all this fuss is about but I have been taken cellmass for awhile and Ive seen nothing but positive results. Also I wanna add that i regularly get labs every six months at a doctors office and everything is A Ok. Just stick with the popular creatine I guess I dont know about these shady products.

Posted by: TittyDance Apr 25 2008, 10:03 PM
I guarantee that wasn't caused by creatine, it had to be something else or else more people would be experiencing problems for the simple fact that so many people take creatine....

Posted by: TittyDance Apr 25 2008, 10:04 PM
I guarantee that wasn't caused by creatine, it had to be something else or else more people would be experiencing problems for the simple fact that so many people take creatine....

Posted by: Cdubya Apr 25 2008, 10:06 PM
Why is everyone bumping these old useless threads?

Posted by: GaWd Apr 26 2008, 10:34 AM
QUOTE (Cdubya @ Apr 25 2008, 10:06 PM)
Why is everyone bumping these old useless threads?

The irony, of course, is that you've posted to the thread twice in the last 5 months, providing a healthy bump to an old "useless" thread...


Posted by: willpiazza31 Apr 26 2008, 10:50 AM
I lost my house, job, and family all because of my creatine addiction.

Posted by: accent115 Apr 26 2008, 10:57 AM
QUOTE (willpiazza31 @ Apr 26 2008, 10:50 AM)
I lost my house, job, and family all because of my creatine addiction.

lmao