L -Tryptophan |
1Fast400 Forums > Supplements |
| Posted by: RomanMVP Jan 22 2005, 10:41 AM |
| Alot of you may be too young to have ever heard of this free form aa, but up until 1989 it was the THE supplement in the natural foods industry, used for depression. Maybe someone old enough can fill in the details about why it was banned, EMS, Showa Denko, etc., etc., etc. , it's an old story. I notice a number of people on this forum use products for anxiety/ depression. They're all a pop gun compared to Tryptophan. After it was banned, prosac came on the market shortly after, and even though L-T had been sold OTC for years, and that a bad batch from Japan caused EMS, the FDA never let it back on the market. Big Pharma strikes again! SSRIs are huge money, and the last thing Big Pharma wants is to see L-T back on the market. Why? Because L-T is converted in the brain into the magical serotonin. And no, I'm not talking about 5- HTP. Anyhow, I found a source. I take 2-3 caps w/ 2 gms. of inositol and B-6, and my Doc and I having slowly and successfully weaned myself off of Luvox. It's a God-send! |
| Posted by: Speakle Jan 22 2005, 11:57 AM |
| I am not on any types of meds only because my g/f has taken several and I am scared that things will get worse for me. My depression isnt that bad because its only bad sometimes. Mind pming me yoru source? It would be nice to not have or smooth out the bad times. |
| Posted by: Dave876 Jan 22 2005, 12:10 PM |
| Roman good stuff man! Would you also PM me a place to get this stuff?I have had anxiety problems since I was a teen.I was actually just about to schedule a Dr. appointment then veiwed this thread and would like to give this a shot before moving on to chemicals. Thanks bro |
| Posted by: Slayer of Souls Jan 22 2005, 12:30 PM |
| me also please!!! Diagnosed with anxiety and depression disorders. |
| Posted by: Anthony28574 Jan 22 2005, 12:35 PM |
| It's still available to purchase for animals, just do a Froogle search. But if this source of yours has a good price on it, I'd appreciate a PM too. |
| Posted by: RomanMVP Jan 22 2005, 12:39 PM |
| Nope, this isn't from a vet source or site. I'll pm |
| Posted by: ezlea Jan 22 2005, 12:49 PM |
| I also have been dealing with anxiety issues for a long time. If you could Roman, I would greatly appreciate a pm on that too bro. |
| Posted by: Max32 Jan 22 2005, 03:53 PM |
| cool man, please shoot me over a pm as well... |
| Posted by: Speakle Jan 22 2005, 05:29 PM |
| Roman is gonna be a pmin mofo. THanks bro. |
| Posted by: Cyberstorm Jan 22 2005, 07:49 PM |
| Add me to the list as well But I don't know if this will help with real life problems that are depressing me |
| Posted by: AgnosticFront Jan 22 2005, 07:55 PM |
| plz inform me too.... |
| Posted by: DonDada Jan 22 2005, 10:23 PM |
| Well you answered your own question about why it was banned...they claim it was due to that bad batch from Japan. What the hell does pm mean though?? |
| Posted by: TommyD Jan 23 2005, 11:38 AM | ||
Private Message.....click on a person's name and a panel comes up where you can send them a PM or email |
| Posted by: DonDada Jan 23 2005, 11:48 AM | ||||
Oh ok...gotta pardon my ignornace on that one, I didnt realize we had a personal messaging feature on here. |
| Posted by: scifi Jan 23 2005, 12:43 PM |
| Has l-tryptophan not been available in the USA after the ban? In Europe it's widely available from all bodybuilding supplement shops. It gives a deeper sleep also. 1-2g before bed. People also use it to replenish serotonin stores before and after using the drug ecstasy. I have been using tryptophan now and then. I really do like it alot! |
| Posted by: RomanMVP Jan 23 2005, 02:41 PM |
| L-T hasn't been available to the mass market since it was yanked in 1989. The fact that you can still buy it OTC in Europe underscores the fact that the FDA, Big Pharma, and the AMA don't want it back - there would be very little need for SSRIs. It is THE raw material we need to make serotonin. And guess what? Ever since the ban in the US, people in Europe haven't been dropping over dead from EMS! And you guys thought the pro-hormone ban was a big deal! |
| Posted by: Sir Charles Brown Jan 23 2005, 08:49 PM |
| Roman...please add me to the list as well. Have dealt with depression several times over the past 15 years...also have social anxiety issues. Thanks! |
| Posted by: cogrick2 Jan 23 2005, 09:17 PM |
| Please count me in as well: Anxiety and depression to the point (or perhaps because of?) GI issues. I have to admire everyone's honesty in admitting their anxiety, depression, and the like. Of course, since a number of quite respected contributors to the board have posted a request for tryptophan info, I wonder if its procurement will mean reduced contributions to the board and / or reduced performance in the gym. I had a friend who swore anti-depressants cut into his ability to physically perfrom and innovate. He was a really good hip-hop/freestyle dancer, big into the spins, popping, flips, and that variety of body movements. Comparably, I seem to lift with more force when I have tension.  Yet I have no way of knowing whether the psychological relief makes the lifting better or whether, in fact, I lift with improved performance. |
| Posted by: RomanMVP Jan 25 2005, 10:39 AM |
| There's really no logical reason for tryptophan to lower one's gym experience (reduced contributions to the board because of tryptophan use ??!!). What is the point of living with sub-standard levels of serotonin if you think it somehow will enhance "performance" levels? L-T is not an anti-depressant per se, rather a raw material or nutrient that restores one to normal mental chemical balance. As for lifting performance, this past year, after 34 yrs. of consistent lifting, I set all-time personal lifting records, at the same time weaning my way off SSRIs (WITH my Dr.s help and monitoring), while using L-T. Actually, I've always lifted best when I'm happy, positive, etc. A depressed state or lifting with "tension" has always hindered my efforts. How does one focus, have a positive attitude, and concentrate if they feel the weight of the world on one's shoulders? |
| Posted by: Xclusive Jan 25 2005, 11:16 AM |
| psst, hey, roman.....ditto.... Can you pm me bro? |
| Posted by: mike57631 Jan 25 2005, 12:11 PM |
| hit me up with a pm for the L-Tryptophan. |
| Posted by: Sir Charles Brown Jan 25 2005, 12:42 PM |
| Guys...after reading the FDA statement on that site I decided to check and see iff I could find L-T anywhere else. Here is what I found on one site that sells it in both capsule and powder form: USP Pharmaceutical Grade 99.6% PURE L Tryptophan NO Fillers, NO Pouring Agents, Nothing Added ! YES..Vegetarian Capsules, YES..All Vegan Source ! **This is NOT 5HTP (which is less effective in at least 90% of patients) and costs much less to manufacture. This product as shown by our Certificate of Analysis..is the highest grade available in the world..over 99% PURE. That is why we're the first choice for Dr's and Pharmacies and now...you. Here is the website, if you want to check it out. http://www.beautynhealth.com/tryptophan/index.htm I think I will definitely give it a shot. I have suffered from (social) anxiety disorders most of my life and have dealt with pretty severe depression twice...not to mention minor depressive bouts. Good Luck! |
| Posted by: mike57631 Jan 25 2005, 03:02 PM |
| http://www.google.com/froogle_url?q=http://store.yahoo.com/vitanet/lpetl60graz.html&fr=AH2t_lurTdCxMUDMAFs7LoXxn4Yp6-UnWvEiH4bmqeDrAAAAAAAAAAA |
| Posted by: Stephen29654 Jan 25 2005, 03:08 PM |
| From what I remember a bad batch from china allegedly caused several deaths. I took it for years with no negative effects. Had a great calming effect and gave a STRONG sense of well being(you could really feel a difference, not a placebo effect) and was VERY VERY cheap to buy. All the health food stores were offering full refunds for any products that contained any tryptophan, it was pretty stupid they were acting like it was poison. I used to take Solgar brand V tabs(i think that was the name) multi-vitamin and even they had tryptophan in them. I would definatly take it again. I also remember that there was some concern over how effective it was at controlling seratonin levels in the brain and the consensus at the time was that drug companies realized that due to the efficacy of tryptophan in treating depression they may not have been able to succesfully market paxil type drugs and so pressure was exerted on the FDA to implement the ban. The handfull of deaths didnt help either, but I recently read that 16 to 19 thousand people die each year due to reations from NSAIDs; and yet the FDA doesnt ban aspirin or motrin. I checked those two sites and the price is really high, prior to the ban a bottle of 100 tablets was about 5 bucks, but that was about the same for arginine, ala, alc and most of the other overpriced newly rediscovered "hot" supplements It really does work though.  I've also had good results from L-phenylalanine by itself and along with tyrosine. Earl Mindel's vitamin bible was full of good info about many amino acids that could be used for mood enhancement, dont know if its still in print(this was pre-WWW, in the early 80s) |
| Posted by: RomanMVP Jan 26 2005, 08:05 AM |
| Excellent post , Stephen, you rinfo is right on. I ran a number of health food stores thru the 80's, and as I said earlier, the ban on tryp caused panic to the point of customers trying to talk me into selling it to them in the parking lot before it was to be sent back to the manufacturers. Prosac came onto the market just after the ban by a matter of months, so there you have it - you don't need CSI to figure this one out. I don't know however, where you were getting L-T for 5.00 for bottle of 100. I have here a distributer's product catalog that our stores used to order from, dated 1987, the 2 most popular brands we sold were Kal ( 14.99/60s) and Basics for Life (12.99/60s). The place I buy mine from now sells for 26.00/60s. Another reason I only use this source is because they are a drug/alcohol in-patient treatment center that uses supplements, meds, nutrtion, and 12 step program. Since this is the L-T that they use for their patients, used in a clinical enviroment, I trust it to be the best available. |
| Posted by: RomanMVP Jan 26 2005, 08:44 AM |
| I forgot to add to the info concerning prices and brands - that was for 500 mg. caps. I just found 2 brands in the old catalog that sold 100 and 200 mg. caps that were obviously less than the 500mg. caps. |
| Posted by: Barry43973 Jan 26 2005, 09:26 AM |
| The reason it was yanked was $$$$$$ pure and simple. The FDA was trying to pull it for years so that Prozac could be released. Why release a prescription drug when there is a natural supplement that works better and is cheaper. The FDA earned their kickbacks on this one, that's for sure |
| Posted by: Stephen29654 Jan 26 2005, 10:39 AM |
| BTW, I had been reading the PDR for nutritional supplements and it states that 5htp is having some of the same contamination issues that were attributed to L-T (EMS). The $5/bottle may not be accurate,(long time ago) but it was a store brand sold in the Philly area, and it was cheap enough that while in High School and college I had no trouble affording it. |
| Posted by: mike57631 Jan 26 2005, 04:42 PM |
| what is EMS ? |
| Posted by: shpongled Jan 26 2005, 05:23 PM |
| I don't believe there is any reason to prefer L-tryptophan over 5-HTP, which is easy to acquire. |
| Posted by: RomanMVP Jan 29 2005, 09:08 AM |
| I beg to differ on the issue of L-T vs. 5 htp. There's a huge amount of conflicting info with regards to 5 htp, from efficaciousness to safety. When it first came out some years back, I was ecstatic thinking it would do what L-T did. I didn't , and over the years, after recommending clients to try it, in reality, it never lived up to the hype. Now, a number of those clients have switched to L-T , and they'd be the first to tell you that the difference between the 2 are like night and day. And a few of these folks had been L-T users before the ban. These are the types of indiviuals who can tell the difference, regardless of "studies", pro and con. I've spoken first hand with clinicians who use L-T at their facilities on patients and they will tell you that , after trying 5 htp on patients when it first became available, it's effects were nothing like 5 htp. I asked one Doc who uses L-t in his practice why the FDA allows the sale of 5 htp in the mass market vs. L-T, he told me that since 5 htp is ineffective at best, it poses no threat to sales of SSRIs. For 5htp to work it needs a dopa decarboxylase inhibitor, the drug carbidopa, to prevent 5 htp from being converted into serotonin till it reaches the brain. The conversion has to take place in the brain, not before. 5 htp is converted into serotonin rapidly long before it reaches the brain. For anyone wanting to see the difference between the 2, try both. Start with 5htp for a month or two, then switch to L-tryptophan. Real life experiences are the only things that matter. |
| Posted by: Dave876 Jan 29 2005, 10:41 AM |
| How would you compare this L-T cocktail to somthing say valium,or klonopin? |
| Posted by: Sir Charles Brown Jan 29 2005, 01:34 PM | ||
That's exactly what I've been reading in the research I have done so far. |
| Posted by: solomon grundy Jan 29 2005, 02:47 PM |
| sorry to make the pm list so long but add my name if you don't mind. Thanks in advance. |
| Posted by: RomanMVP Jan 29 2005, 08:20 PM |
| Dave The L-tryptophan cocktail will not give a drugged-out effect like benzodiazepine will, in fact L-T was used in the past to get some folks off the drugs and return there brain function to normal. All L-T does is restore a natural balance to the brain for those who nature short-changed in the first place. With this, you won't feel doped-up or zombie-like. By now, it must sound like I have stock in this stuff. Seriously, I don't. I started this post because know lots of guys on this forum are suffering from depression or anxiety. I'm just passing on what I think could be a very effective answer to a wide-spread problem. I've been a recovering alcoholic for 16 yrs., and this has been the best route for me. If ya can't pass on what you percieve to be help for others, what good are ya to the world? |
| Posted by: Saber41194 Jan 30 2005, 01:23 PM | ||
as in my knolege L-T is found in chocolamine. and 1kg/day of chocolamine has on the brain neurotransmiter the same effect as one canabis. canabis may be addictive. into my head there is the folowing statement : L-T turns into 5-HT or the 5-HT turn into L-T Since my childhood i was a nesquick/chocolats addict. i recently tried sertaline (SSRI) the first 50mg made me sleepy. and droped my Blood presure and heart rate. the 2nd shoot i just didnt felt the full effect. The 3rd 50mg shoot felt nothing and was able to stay awake. so i stoped 1month off later took back 50mg of sertaline HCL and felt nothings ! dispite the fact that every morning i daily use nesquick with cereals. sertaline has a limited effect on me. unless ur serotonine receptors are damaged natural black chocos and L-T can help are good  i get a better sleep paterns and memory after the sertaline use that lasted till now |
| Posted by: Dave876 Jan 30 2005, 01:36 PM |
| Thanks for the answer Roman...I didnt think you were whoring L-T BTW...I am greatful for the info that you have helped us with. |
| Posted by: shpongled Jan 31 2005, 07:37 AM | ||
Well, I don't agree, but that's because my philosophy on how to best evaluate a supplement is entirely different. I don't think firsthand reports mean anything compared to double-blind, placebo-controlled studies. I can go out and find hundreds of firsthand reports from people who say that they drive better when they are drunk. You can even find a ton of doctors that will tell you that injectable steroids will give you liver cancer. Doesn't make it true, if there are no studies to back it up. What we know is that: -Dozens of studies have found that 5-HTP supplementation does increase serotonin levels in the brain. About 70% of an orally administered dose reaches the bloodstream. Given that it easily passes the BBB, if that amount reaches circulation you can bet that supplementation raises CNS levels, and there is a significant body of research out there that proves it. -Multiple clinical studies have shown that 5-HTP significantly decreases appetite and leads to weight loss. In contrast, there is little research on tryptophan in this arena. -There are also multiple double-blind, placebo-controlled trials indicating that 5-HTP is effective at decreasing depression. -Because 5-HTP will not compete with other neurotransmitter precursors for entry in to the brain, it will not decrease levels of dopamine, NE, etc. as tryptophan is known to do. For some, a decrease in dopamine levels is desirable, but for most, it is not. I have never seen evidence in the scientific literature that 5-HTP is unsafe. There is a lot of misinformation circulating on the internet, just as there is about every substance. |
| Posted by: shpongled Jan 31 2005, 07:56 AM | ||||
Carbidopa helps but it is certainly not necessary. You all may want to check out this article: http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/3/4/271.pdf |
| Posted by: shpongled Jan 31 2005, 07:59 AM | ||
One of the most popular theories for why CNS fatigue occurs during exercise is that it is due to an increase in circulating tryptophan levels, and subsequently increased serotonin levels in the brain. It is pretty well-known that this can make you feel drowsy and fatigued. |
| Posted by: Margaret Lynch Jan 31 2005, 07:43 PM | ||||||
Thanks for posting that Thorne link, it pretty much clears up the disinformation in the rest of this thread which was getting annoying and seeming like a sales pitch. |
| Posted by: Sir Charles Brown Feb 1 2005, 12:24 AM |
| Sorry for "annoying" you, Margaret. Check out this thread. It less annoying and quite humorous! http://forums.1fast400.com/?showtopic=9835&hl= |
| Posted by: Margaret Lynch Feb 1 2005, 09:30 AM |
| Scatology is the first resort of weak minds. |
| Posted by: Max32 Feb 1 2005, 09:50 AM |
David, I was wondering if you think 5-HTP (or L-T for that matter) would be beneficial if taken at night for someone who has severe NES and wakes every hour on the hour, almost to the minute nightly. NES=nightime eating syndrome. This condition seems to be what is keeping me from getting back down sub 7-8%bfat, as I have been hovering in the 9-10% range now for over a yr  I have heard other prods or combinations thereof might be beneficial such as 5-HTP, sesathin, theanine, etc.... though I have tried just about everything to little avail. |
| Posted by: shpongled Feb 2 2005, 09:43 AM |
| Yeah, it is the best supplement I can think of for this. Most drugs that help you sleep increase appetite, 5-HT precursors do the opposite. Also make sure to eat a reasonably sized meal before bed. |
| Posted by: RomanMVP Feb 2 2005, 04:59 PM |
| Shpongled - Then again, do you have first hand access to clinicians who've used both in clinical applications on a day to day basis? These are the folks, in my opinion, that see and track results in patients and understand whether or not a drug is efficacious or not. Published studies? Not terribly impressed by such anymore. As we all know, or should know, by the law of publish or perish, "studies" can be flawed and/or unethically designed. I always keep in mind what Arthur Jones has said for years about studies - "most are bullshit not worth the paper they're written on." And, I think at this point one needs to keep in mind that BN sells 5 HTP and doesn't have access to L-Tryptophan. |
| Posted by: Richard24790 Jun 22 2005, 12:50 AM |
| Roman, I would appreciate a pm for a source of tryptophan. A friend of mine has the ultimate answer for joint aches and pains This is an interesting post topic, no doubt. All sorts of interesting issues are getting raised. The issue about exhaustion. L-T will tend to expose sleep debt. That is, if you are not getting enough sleep, L-T can make you feel sleepy. The reason? At night, your brain converts seratonin to melatonin. If you are sleep-deprived, then you are equivalently jet lagged, and your clocks are out of whack. So an increase in seratonin levels can lead to increased melatonin levels at strange times of day, instead of elevated levels shortly after dusk. This can make you feel innappropriately tired during the day. So the answer is to start by taking L-T in the evening about an hour before bedtime, and get to bed around 9:00 - 9:30. Just as an experiment. Lack of sleep can also be the cause of anxiety issues. Hmmm ..... working out hard, and sleep deprived? Exhaustion and depression go hand in hand. Nuff said. there is more .... much more, but this should be enuff for many. |
| Posted by: jungledude Jun 22 2005, 11:11 PM |
| Please include me in that bunch that would greatly appreciate the chance to order tryptophan. Thanks a million......jungledude, e-mail gerald@he.nocoxmail.com |
| Posted by: linlhutz Jun 23 2005, 12:00 AM | ||
If you look close on page 2 of this very thread, a link you shall find  I just ordered some powder from there. I'll let you know what I think. |
| Posted by: Super Trooper Jun 23 2005, 08:06 PM |
| Is the link on page 2 the link that roman has ? If not I would like a PM also. |
| Posted by: linlhutz Jun 24 2005, 12:06 AM | ||
Right there |
| Posted by: Beau Jun 24 2005, 04:38 PM |
| Please PM me as well. |
| Posted by: Wicked Girl Jun 25 2005, 04:36 PM |
| L-T has been available since at least early last year. I did purchase some from Beauty & Health a few months ago. All it does is put me right to sleep. I get no beneficial mood enahancement the next day either. I hear a lot that this supp can provide a huge benefit for many, but not me. |
| Posted by: swankinrosco Jul 17 2005, 11:13 AM |
| bump - could someone PM me with the info? i'm currently taking an SSRI and it would be nice to get off of it =) |
| Posted by: RepubCarrier Jul 17 2005, 02:08 PM | ||
my mom is on one. this could save money. PM would be awesome. |