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> Winstrol with Proviron as a cycle alone?, Are these 2 effective as their own cycle
Posted: Jul 10 2008, 03:49 AM
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Hey guys, been 6 weeks since the end of an 10 week cycle of Deca/test e, with 3 weeks of Clomid PCT after. I have recently gotten ridiculously weak at the gym and lost all of my weight gain. I am somewhat at a loss to explain why this has happened as I am not doing anything differently from my usual post-cycle training and diet. I'm 39 and have done plenty of cycles and am familiar with proper PCT, dosing, etc. I know I would normally wait longer to start another cycle, but am thinking maybe it would be ok to do a short 4-6 week bridge cycle of 50 mg Oral Winstrol with 50 mg Oral Proviron. I know Proviron is considered quite weak on its own and has multiple uses when combined with different steroids. My understanding is the Proviron in this particular usage would provide the much needed androgen when used with Winstrol alone, due to Winstrol's low androgenic content. And since Proviron is not hepa-toxic, it should make the risk of an all oral cycle minimal. Normally I have used Proviron in the past as a "buffer" to an injectables cycle. I have never used Winstrol before.

What do you think of such a "bridge" cycle's effectiveness? I am not looking for the massive gains of a normal bulking cycle since Winstrol is obviously used for cutting, but rather want to gain back strength and some lean size. Despite my weight loss back to my pre-cycle weight, I have kept most of my size (I suspect therefore most of the loss was water retention) but am worried that as I seem to be rapidly losing strength, I need something to boost it back up before the size goes too. I don't think it is time yet to start another cycle that includes test, deca, tren, or other typical injectables but to be frank, with it being the middle of summer, I wanna look my best at the beach, clubs, etc and the timing of my cycles didn't quite optimize for the seasons.

What type of PCT do you recommend following a cycle such as I am proposing? Many seem to feel traditional PCT is unnecessary from Winstrol usage alone, and I am not sure what effect Proviron has on the need for PCT since it is commonly used within a cycle for its Anti-E properties, like a milder Nolvadex. Therefore shouldn't it also be a compound like Winny that doesn'y need PCT? How long would you wait after this bridge cycle ends before starting a test/Deca cycle again, kickstarted with some DBol?

One thing I am also uncertain of is whether to split the dosing or all at once each day. Thanks for your help.
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Posted: Jul 10 2008, 08:29 AM
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Ray,

just my .02, but i don't think that'd be a good cycle. Proviron is a deriative of DHT (hence it's use as an AI during cycle), and so is Winny. therefore, stacking them both together would probably slightly increase the gains, but greatly increase sides. you could use something like Oral Turanabol with either one of those, however and get good gains with minial sides. hell, even a low dose of D-bol with 50 mg/day of Winny would be decent....i think Nolva would be an effective PCT for the Winny/OT combo....

as far as issues with your cycle...i think you've been off long enough for it all to be out of your system. maybe you're just getting older...i dunno.
but it i were you, i'd prolly get blood work done prior to the "bridge" cycle.

p.s. Proviron should NOT be used in PCT...it's mildly supressive on it's own.
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Posted: Jul 10 2008, 11:51 AM
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i'd wait a little while longer and do a real cycle. that cycle sucks and its going to make u have to wait even longer to run a real cycle.

if ur strength is way down that sucks, but its also expected and at least you're keeping your size.

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Posted: Jul 10 2008, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (cycobushmaster @ Jul 10 2008, 08:29 AM)
Ray,

just my .02, but i don't think that'd be a good cycle. Proviron is a deriative of DHT (hence it's use as an AI during cycle), and so is Winny. therefore, stacking them both together would probably slightly increase the gains, but greatly increase sides. you could use something like Oral Turanabol with either one of those, however and get good gains with minial sides. hell, even a low dose of D-bol with 50 mg/day of Winny would be decent....i think Nolva would be an effective PCT for the Winny/OT combo....

as far as issues with your cycle...i think you've been off long enough for it all to be out of your system. maybe you're just getting older...i dunno.
but it i were you, i'd prolly get blood work done prior to the "bridge" cycle.

p.s. Proviron should NOT be used in PCT...it's mildly supressive on it's own.

I actually have d-bol on hand too. What do you recommend dosage wise if I combine d-bol and winny instead? It just seems like due to d-bol's suppressive nature, I might as well combine d-bol with test as a kickstart to a deca/test cycle, in which case I would be doing a full cycle that defeats the purpose of what I am proposing.

I guess there are lots of theories about using Proviron and Winny together. One of the steroid profile sites says this though, which is why I considered using them together:
"This drug is also favored by many during contest preparations, when a lower estrogen/high androgen level is particularly sought after. This is especially beneficial when anabolics like Winstrol, oxandrolone and Primobolan are being used alone, as the androgenic content of these drugs is relatively low. Proviron can supplement a well needed androgen, and bring about an increase in the hardness and density of the muscles. "
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Posted: Jul 11 2008, 03:55 AM
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There's no such thing as a 'bridge' - you're either on or you're off. If you want to go back on you may as well go on properly rather than just dick around with cutters like winny.

Proviron (arguably, and according to Schering's research) isnt suppressive in doses up to 100mg/day, but winny sure as hell is

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Posted: Jul 11 2008, 09:38 AM
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you may want to try a more aggressive PCT after future cycles to get those T levels back to normal. Most people will say that as you age your body finds it harder to recover after a heavy cycle. Try stackin nolva AND clomid and see how you get on. Running your SERMs for longer periods post cycle may also be a wise choice, 3 weeks seems kinda short even for the younger user.
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Posted: Jul 11 2008, 11:09 PM
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QUOTE (anaboliclife07 @ Jul 11 2008, 09:38 AM)
you may want to try a more aggressive PCT after future cycles to get those T levels back to normal. Most people will say that as you age your body finds it harder to recover after a heavy cycle. Try stackin nolva AND clomid and see how you get on. Running your SERMs for longer periods post cycle may also be a wise choice, 3 weeks seems kinda short even for the younger user.

i agree with this...

also, when did you start PCT, and how did your cycle end? if you ran 10 weeks of test e, then the deca should stop NLT week 9. PCT wouldn't really start 'til week 12, since it takes a while for that to clear the body....
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Posted: Jul 12 2008, 03:54 AM
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QUOTE (cycobushmaster @ Jul 11 2008, 11:09 PM)
QUOTE (anaboliclife07 @ Jul 11 2008, 09:38 AM)
you may want to try a more aggressive PCT after future cycles to get those T levels back to normal. Most people will say that as you age your body finds it harder to recover after a heavy cycle. Try stackin nolva AND clomid and see how you get on. Running your SERMs for longer periods post cycle may also be a wise choice, 3 weeks seems kinda short even for the younger user.

i agree with this...

also, when did you start PCT, and how did your cycle end? if you ran 10 weeks of test e, then the deca should stop NLT week 9. PCT wouldn't really start 'til week 12, since it takes a while for that to clear the body....

Ran Deca and Test E for 9 weeks, then ran Equipoise and Test E for the 10th week cause I ran out on the deca. Started PCT 12 days after last injection. Clomid at 150 for 6 days, 100 for 12 days, and 50 for 4 days. Didn't feel like I had any recovery issues unlike some past cycles using Nolvadex for PCT. Usually post-cycle, I get very emotional and get bad ED, but everything has been totally normal since finishing the Clomid. Just the wierd quick and significant decrease in strength and weight, much more so than after other cycles.
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