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> EpiStane, could i use it?
Posted: Apr 10 2008, 02:01 PM
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hey guys, i was looking into epistane and i was wondering if it would be safe/good idea for me to take it if i only used it at 20mgs everyone says to do so it doesnt aromatize. im only 20 years of age but thats why i wouldnt take it over 20 mg or is that still a bad idea at my age? what ya think?
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Posted: Apr 10 2008, 02:19 PM
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20 years old = NOPE, sorry
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Posted: Apr 10 2008, 02:32 PM
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go ahead man. you'll be fine. and stephen, why exactly do u think he cant?

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Posted: Apr 10 2008, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (goodskie @ Apr 10 2008, 02:32 PM)
go ahead man. you'll be fine. and stephen, why exactly do u think he cant?

At 20 years old I just dont think it is a great idea to mess with your hormone levels. He already has tons of natty test flowing through your body. There is no magic age that says yes or no, just personal opinion. Me about to be a doctor in May, I would just advise against it.
Plus he never mentioned anything about his goals with the cycle or PCT or support supplements. This leads me to think he should wait and do more research about these compounds. He really didnt outline how long he wanted to use it. Just that he was going to use 20 mg. And why under dose it? Because of his age? That doesnt make sense, if you are going to use something, use it at its effective dosage and get the best results. And he says something about everyone saying use it because it doesn't aromatize? I dont even know why you bring that up? What does that have to do with anything? In the end it comes down to a matter of personal opinion. And to me it sound like he needs to do way more research and come back when he has a cycle layed out. Like I said my opinion.
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Posted: Apr 10 2008, 02:58 PM
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ohh yeah read the pinned post above about use under 21...
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Posted: Apr 10 2008, 09:00 PM
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so about to be a doctor you would advise if he waits a few months it will all of the sudden be ok?

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Posted: Apr 10 2008, 09:33 PM
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QUOTE (goodskie @ Apr 10 2008, 09:00 PM)
so about to be a doctor you would advise if he waits a few months it will all of the sudden be ok?

I would advise to wait past the age of 21 but that was just the name give to the post with the sticky. I feel someone should come as close as possible to completely maxing out there given physical potential before turning to anabolic/androgenic compounds. And in your early 20s your body's test levels are still so high and primed for muscle growth with a good clean diet, good supplementation and hardwork in the gym.

goodskie, I am sure that he would be fine running it and not totally screw up his hormone levels for the rest of his life but my advice would be to hold off for a couple years. Or at least give us more information about his cycle, his goals with the cycle, his PCT, how often he trains, his diet and other stuff that would help us recommend the best way to use this and make sure he is doing it safely.

Just an aside, I find it funny how much stuff younger kids are taking these days when you talk to guys at the gym. They are running a bunch of crap, in these massive cycles and look nothing like they should for what they are taking. Most dont know what support supplements are or what PCT is. All they know is a buddy used this stuff and gained some easy weight and added some strength to his lifts.
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Posted: Apr 10 2008, 09:51 PM
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i agree but i dont think 20 is too bad.

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Posted: Apr 11 2008, 02:17 AM
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i would run 10/20/20/20mg and run cycle support by anabolic innovations for liver purposes and such, and for PCT i would get nolvadex and post cycle support by once again anabolic innovations to help with any test troubles.
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Posted: Apr 11 2008, 09:46 AM
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QUOTE (On3musta @ Apr 11 2008, 02:17 AM)
i would run 10/20/20/20mg and run cycle support by anabolic innovations for liver purposes and such, and for PCT if i would even need one i would get nolvadex and post cycle support by once again anabolic innovations to help with any test troubles.

if you needed PCT???? Dude seriously.....
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Posted: Apr 11 2008, 10:09 AM
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QUOTE (Stephen57799 @ Apr 11 2008, 09:46 AM)
QUOTE (On3musta @ Apr 11 2008, 02:17 AM)
i would run 10/20/20/20mg and run cycle support by anabolic innovations for liver purposes and such, and for PCT if i would even need one i would get nolvadex and post cycle support by once again anabolic innovations to help with any test troubles.

if you needed PCT???? Dude seriously.....

LOL and running at 10/20/20/20

Body Well Nutrition Representative (joakman)
http://www.bodywellnutrition.com/
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Posted: Apr 11 2008, 10:32 AM
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QUOTE (James244273 @ Apr 11 2008, 10:09 AM)
QUOTE (Stephen57799 @ Apr 11 2008, 09:46 AM)
QUOTE (On3musta @ Apr 11 2008, 02:17 AM)
i would run 10/20/20/20mg and run cycle support by anabolic innovations for liver purposes and such, and for PCT if i would even need one i would get nolvadex and post cycle support by once again anabolic innovations to help with any test troubles.

if you needed PCT???? Dude seriously.....

LOL and running at 10/20/20/20

This is why I said "no" above and usually say no to younger people.

You are taking an exogenous anabolic/androgenic steriod for 4 weeks constantly. What leads you to believe you maybe might not need PCT? What experience do you have with steroidal compounds that might lead you to believe this will not shut down some/all of your natty test production? How to plan to combat the increase in estrogen produced by your body? Are you going to get bloodwork done before and after to make sure everything is up to par?

I am not trying to be an a$$ but you have to think and do some informed research. Sounds like you havent done much.
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Posted: Apr 11 2008, 11:12 AM
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personal opinion... everyone makes there own mistakes or choices... we can help lead them in the right direction but we can not tell them what to or not to do... I personally am very stubborn.. I am going to do my own thing but i do look for guidance and help.. I am running epistane right now.. and i am 20... it's a AAS and i would DEFINITELY run a PCT.. of which I am doing a bottle of Paravol.. A serm (terimafene)... and a box of post cycle tabs.. with keeping my liver support/blood pressure support and some saw palmetto in my body.. but seriously.. This stephen guy who is going to be a "Dr.".. seriously dont tell people what to do.. just guide them.. and if you dont know.. or dont htink they should do something.. ok put your input in.. but help guide them.. For gods sake.. we our who we are... Train hard and eat well..
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Posted: Apr 11 2008, 12:26 PM
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QUOTE (cjones29 @ Apr 11 2008, 11:12 AM)
personal opinion... everyone makes there own mistakes or choices... we can help lead them in the right direction but we can not tell them what to or not to do... I personally am very stubborn.. I am going to do my own thing but i do look for guidance and help.. I am running epistane right now.. and i am 20... it's a AAS and i would DEFINITELY run a PCT.. of which I am doing a bottle of Paravol.. A serm (terimafene)... and a box of post cycle tabs.. with keeping my liver support/blood pressure support and some saw palmetto in my body.. but seriously.. This stephen guy who is going to be a "Dr.".. seriously dont tell people what to do.. just guide them.. and if you dont know.. or dont htink they should do something.. ok put your input in.. but help guide them.. For gods sake.. we our who we are... Train hard and eat well..

Sounds like someone has a little roid rage, might wanna lay off the epistane; and its torimifene... LOL! just messing around with you.

But seriously I am just tired of posts like this. They are all the same, "Can I use ___Blank___ compound?" Then they have no idea what else to do or is needed.

Yes we are hear to help guide each other and make suggestions. I understand to each their own. If you are 18 and want to use AAS go ahead its not my life/body. In the end everyone does what they want to do. He just asked for an opinion and I gave him mine. Sorry if you disagree with it.

I am glad you are using a SERM for PCT and solid support supplements for your cycle. But most of the time when it comes to the younger people they usually do not and have no idea what it is and why it is needed.

Not to be harsh or sound mad but I have worked really hard and you can put quotes around Dr. all you want but it will be at the front of my name in the beginning of May.
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Posted: Apr 11 2008, 12:53 PM
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stephen, i appreciate all your input and such but your making me seem like a total DUMB F**K. i have done my research, trust me plenty of it, and i have already run a PH in the past with pct and SERM! but thats before i got educated about it all and my age is the only thing holding me back. but thats why i come on here to ask YOU guys for past experiences you have had or ones you have heard from others. i could go read an article and have it tell me NEVER TOUCH STEROIDS OR PHS THEY WILL KILL YOU. hmm so if that were the case why arnt we all dead? i know its bad to take them at a young age i know, but if done correctly , almost flawlessly , dont you think it could be alright? or are you apposed to it all until the utmost correct age? either way is cool im just sayin its kinda like when you read or your doc tells you "if you drink, your gonna destroy your liver " well what if i only drink a glass a wine every week? or every month? will my liver be destroyed and i may die? i dont think so, thats why i think if we are safe about what we are doing and dont dick around we can make all the bad reps about these products change to good feedback. but really i do thankyou for your info and help. i may in fact just might need wait for my own good, we'll see...
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Posted: Apr 11 2008, 03:48 PM
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my best friend ran havoc without a serm and was fine. its not a heavy cycle. he kept everything and his libido is fine. hes 20. another friend same thing but hes 23. i suggested a serm becasue i always use one but i really dont think its a must for havoc but good to have on hand. like i said i always use one.

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Posted: Apr 11 2008, 06:55 PM
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Havoc doesnt affect the HPTA unless run at high doses, so as for natty test shutdown, that shouldnt be an issue unless taken in excess of 24mgs. The only trouble i would see would be cort levels. Epi is an AI that just so happens to also fit into androgen receptors, which exhibits an anabolic effect. Im also against people under 21 using ph's/aas but in the case of epi its not going to have such damaging effects as with other products if used responsibly. If your going to do it just make sure you have all your bases covered.

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Every thing said here is all for role playing purposes. I do not advise or condone any activity that is illegal in the USA. This character is purely for entertainment purpose. Nothing said should be taken as medical advise, consult your physican before taking any kind of supplement or medication.
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Posted: Apr 11 2008, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (goodskie @ Apr 11 2008, 03:48 PM)
my best friend ran havoc without a serm and was fine. its not a heavy cycle. he kept everything and his libido is fine. hes 20. another friend same thing but hes 23. i suggested a serm becasue i always use one but i really dont think its a must for havoc but good to have on hand. like i said i always use one.

glad you always use a SERM.
Did you best friend or your other friend have blood work done before and after?
Thats the only true way to know you are totally okay. More than likely they didnt and just going on the fact that they feel fine.

I agree Havoc/Epi is not as harsh as SD or M1T but its a steroid and should not be taken lightly.



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Posted: Apr 11 2008, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE (On3musta @ Apr 11 2008, 12:53 PM)
stephen, i appreciate all your input and such but your making me seem like a total DUMB F**K. i have done my research, trust me plenty of it, and i have already run a PH in the past with pct and SERM! but thats before i got educated about it all and my age is the only thing holding me back. but thats why i come on here to ask YOU guys for past experiences you have had or ones you have heard from others. i could go read an article and have it tell me NEVER TOUCH STEROIDS OR PHS THEY WILL KILL YOU. hmm so if that were the case why arnt we all dead? i know its bad to take them at a young age i know, but if done correctly , almost flawlessly , dont you think it could be alright? or are you apposed to it all until the utmost correct age? either way is cool im just sayin its kinda like when you read or your doc tells you "if you drink, your gonna destroy your liver " well what if i only drink a glass a wine every week? or every month? will my liver be destroyed and i may die? i dont think so, thats why i think if we are safe about what we are doing and dont dick around we can make all the bad reps about these products change to good feedback. but really i do thankyou for your info and help. i may in fact just might need wait for my own good, we'll see...

I dont mean to make you sound dumb. But no one is talking about death from PH/steroids. You say if done "correctly/flawlessly" and earlier you were talking about possible not using a PCT. And like I said why cut down the dose if you are going to run a cycle. Epi is found to have its best affects at 30-40mg. Most people have used it to cut down gyno at 10-20mg (not sure if that works but people report it). Do I think you will be fine. Probably if you use the correct support supps and a solid PCT.

Give us your stats? How long your have been working out? Tell me about your diet? What are your goals for running this cycle? What have you used in the past, ie PH/steroids? Whats your workout schedule? I think everyone here would be more than happy to help you do it correctly, (I know some, like myself would advise against it because of your age, but if you want do it we want to see you do it safely) you just have to give us the proper knowledge first. And dont come here asking "can I take Epi because it doesnt aromatize and I am 20." I think all the above stuff is key when you come here asking for advice on a cycle.
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Posted: Apr 11 2008, 07:33 PM
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hahaha just saw this...
"hey what up fellas, ive decided not to run a PH cycle because i am only 20 years of age and i get scared when i hear all of the talk that ill be messed up for life if i do...therefore i was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on what other supps you know of that are not PH that still build some good muscle. ive been looking into some X-Factor which sounds pretty dank but still im not settle. or even if not something like that, think i should just take some trib, or horney goat weed just to give me an extra ooomf in the gym. anyone?"

didnt you post that a few days ago On3musta?


what happened between looking into other things that are not PH?
What did I suggest to you then...
"at 20 you dont need a test booster. maybe some combo of preworkout like creatine, arginine, beta alanine, caffine, BCAA"

even big_ben replied and suggested...
"No doubt! Invest in steak, sweet potatoes, eggs, protein shakes, BCAA's, and most NO supps like NO Explode/NanoVapor/NO Shotgun have alot of extras in them.
DRIVE/RPM good stack, as well as Anabolic Pump.
Above all else EAT, LIFT, and SLEEP!!!"
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