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> 16 years old, Stack advice??
Posted: Jul 26 2004, 03:40 PM
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I know what ur all thinking and NO this is not another 16 year old tryin PHs. Im stayin away from that stuff till atleast 21. but i am however looking for some help. i have been training for 1 1/2 years now and made some significant gains. i went from 285 at 34% bodyfat to 220 at around 14-16%bodyfat. that mostly why im not lookin at phs i know that i have enough test in my system from puberty and such to not need an extra. i have cycled creatine/no2 in the past, along with Optimum Nutrition whey and meso-tech meal replacment etc... the products i have used as of yet are.... swole V2 (with moderate gains), Powerstack (creatine mono), charge(thermogenic), ThinRg (another thermo only did one cycle), ON whey, meso-tech, and ephedrine. i am curently sitting at 220 with a 505 deadlift and 265 hang clean but i am looking for some more gains. so heres my question... would 6-oxo and other post cycle products help to raise my natural test levels? what about tribulus? is NO2 worth the money? i know it makes u look ripped but i dont know if i was stackin it right cause i didn't see significant gains. i am entering a football season which lasts for 3 months. i am looking for something that will give me energy (ephedrine) and let me see some gains while only going to the gym 2-3 times a week on top of 5 three hour practices. is there anything that is non-hormonal that would give the same androgenic type of benifits? ANY insight would be greatly appreciated. you can also recommend some off-season stacks cause thats when my training gets real hardcore, 5 solid days a week plus numerous trips to the track and such. and i know someone is gonna give me the simple answer... "eat like its your job" that ive heard a 1000 times and ur right but i already consume around 6-7k of calories during football and get around 300g of protein. and yes its all good food. thanx again for your interest in my post.
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Posted: Jul 26 2004, 04:16 PM
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maybe a tribulus/zma combo?

i think 1fast400 is amazing but if i can grab some of the product from my local store it'd be great. check out www.sndcanada.com
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Posted: Jul 26 2004, 05:21 PM
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Tribulus doesn't do much. While it's better then swallowing capfulls of sand, I wouldn't suggest spending money on it unless you feel you a need get rid of it.

Load up on precursors to hormones in your diet. Large amounts of protien are good, but make sure your capable of absorbing it with proper vitamin intake and fish oils. Keep the digestion system at it's prime with frequent meals, lots of fiber, and enough protein from non-animal sources to prevent hard-blood deposits, constipation and over stimulated sex drive.

For males less sex results in a substantial amount of freed energy redirected to the CNS, but do as you like.

Strait running significantly increases testosterone levels, serotonin, protien synthesis, and nitrogen balance. The longer the better. It also developes your lungs and CNS to be more capable of absorbing and delivering oxygen. I would stress the importance of this even more then your tesosterone levels.

In the long run, certain exercises increase testosterone more then others, for example, deadlifting, squats, military press, etc.

To help with balance, bone strength (which should not be neglected), and to a lesser degree for asthetic purposes (to look nice), make sure to include exercises that stress bone developement. The more iscolated the movements the better. Doing chest flies with proper form, for example, will cause the rib cage to expand and appear more muscular.

You can try a supplement that inhibits the conversion of tesosterone into estrogen, such as Chrysin. There are also products that increase the tesosterone to DHT ratio you can stack with it. I don't use them, I can't recommend any specific DHT inhibitors. Maybe some one else will jump in with some advice on this one?

Taking precursors to growth hormone, or doing exercises that stimulate the pituitary gland to release greater amounts will help. Taking a glass of juice immediately after rest or sleep, or after strenuous exercise is a good idea. Make sure it is low acidity (apple juice) if you are ingesting other supplements or protiens, so none of it is destroyed before it reaches the intestinal lining.

Apple cider vinegar is the ultimate cleanser for your digestive track. It is also somewhat uncomfortable to take in 500mg tablets. Just make sure to take it on an empty stomach, preferably in the morning. It will stimulate metabolism and flush out some of the waste in the lower intestines.

Some ACV products are frauds. As a means of verification, open the bottle and take a large whiff with your nostrils. Make sure the mouth is closed. If you are in some measure of pain and your sinuses are clearer then they have ever been, then the product is potent and worth your time. If the smell is sweet and mild, like honey or sugar, then chances are your money has been wasted.

I might've recommended Ephedrine, but it looks like you're already stacking with it.

As you said, you're loaded with ludicrous amounts of testosterone. More then looking to supplements, now is a great time to perfect form and push your muscles past their limits. It will benifit you greatly in the long run, as your body will respond quickly and adapt. With age this kind of body sculpting takes much, much longer.

By the way are you also in Canada? Mike from 1fast400 has recommended a supplier for Canadians. Contact him for a pricelist at <maxout500@hotmail.com>. He is very pleasant to deal with and his prices are quite low. The added benifit is that he ships from within Canada, avoiding customs problems that come with ordering from the states. Shipping is also much cheaper, and quite fast.

A generic post, for a generic question.
I hope at least one paragraph of this was useful info,

-Lite
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Posted: Jul 27 2004, 12:25 AM
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Thanx for all your help lite12,


Can you elaborate on some of the things you mentioned... i.e. hormone precusors/ proper vitamin dosages/ fishoils/chrysin/ the specifics of the benifits of running for test levels/ test to DHT conversion and finally ACV. Pretty much everything you said. Once again I really appreciate your help. also what are your feelings on post cycle recovery products such as 6-oxo to block est and to boost natural test?

regards,
dave,

p.s. what effect does sex really have on test levels?

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Posted: Jul 27 2004, 12:28 AM
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Also, if you'd like info about my program in the gym I'd be happy to volunteer the info. It's not you typical program.
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Posted: Jul 27 2004, 12:50 AM
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QUOTE
also what are your feelings on post cycle recovery products such as 6-oxo to block est and to boost natural test?

I do not think you gotta boost anything, better do not mess with your system at that age - a VERY high natural test can cause apart from muscle growth other things too (body hair growth for instance) since the system is a bit unstable with 16. I've read that a man's body needs certain estrogen levels to function properly; inhibiting them could result in a drop of the natural test in order to balance the system. I am not an endocrinologist, but I think that even if 6-oxo is relatively safe it will do no good - you can believe this or not, but messing with the hormonal activities in your body in your age may result in more problems than benefits. Good luck!
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Posted: Jul 28 2004, 05:02 PM
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Meditabitur Sapientiam
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QUOTE
Can you elaborate on some of the things you mentioned... i.e. hormone precusors/ proper vitamin dosages/ fishoils/chrysin/ the specifics of the benifits of running for test levels/ test to DHT conversion and finally ACV. Pretty much everything you said. Once again I really appreciate your help. also what are your feelings on post cycle recovery products such as 6-oxo to block est and to boost natural test?

regards,
dave,

p.s. what effect does sex really have on test levels?


Sorry for the late response, didn't see this one get buried under all the other posts.

Having sex indirectly affects testosterone levels as the body flushes out a plethora of hormones upon orgasm. It takes approximately 10 days for a male in prime health to recover completely from an orgasm. The real detriment from sex is not in the lowered testosterone levels but the stress it puts on the central nervous system. The entire CNS becomes raw and unresponsive, and the body will have to work overtime to recover from this expenditure, putting all other bodily functions to second priority. In other words, muscle recovery, detoxification, and even digestion processes will suffer. It doesn't mean sex is to be avoided altogether, but it does mean you need be aware of the stresses is causes and moderate appropriately.

ACV will stimulate metabolism and serve as a diuretic and colon cleanser to some degree. Since it is highly acidic, take it on an empty stomach separate from other supplements. ACV will soften solid waste and stimulate lymph glands responsible for detoxification. This indirectly causes an increase in metabolism by stimulating the release of hormones associated with the digestive process. ACV is also high in pectin, which has been speculated as the main ingredient responsible for increased metabolism. You can get pectin without ACV, but this would mean losing out on the detoxification properties of ACV.

No weight trainer or performance athlete should go without taking a multivitamin. During intense physical stress, nutrient leaching is excessive; notably calcium, which is especially important for the health of the nerves. I would recommend supplementing with a multivitamin that is high in calcium, low in iron, and contains a moderate dose of B12. Taking these with essential oils will help with absorption as well. If the body is incapable of absorbing the nutrients you are supplementing with, they will go to waste instead of being converted into essential hormones and neuroconnectors.

I'm not sure how to elaborate on Chrysin other then it inhibits conversion of testosterone into estrogen in the body; which happens naturally to some degree regardless of sex. It will give your testosterone levels a boost, but at the cost of altering the way your body balances these hormones. In the long run I wouldn't advise taking any supplement that directly alter hormonal balances. Whatever stress you put on this balance, your body will compensate in the opposite direction. By unreasonably increasing testosterone levels and decreasing estrogen, the body will react by either cutting off testosterone, increasing estrogen levels, or both. This is how drug dependency develops.

If you feel you're at a plateau and your routine isn't giving you the changes you need then taking a supplement to push you over the hill may be in order. However I would recommend energy enhances like Ephedrine far more then anabolics or supplements that increase testosterone.

-Lite
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