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Posted: Feb 27 2004, 01:04 PM
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24 years old
178 lbs
9-11% BF

I am looking to gain some body mass while increasing my lifts. And I need to put on some more weight (Beach time is comming up wink.gif ). I have tried creatin with good results but losing it soon after due to a broken leg...Now, Im back and have been back in the gym for 8-9 mo's...So here is my question...

M-1t and 4derm, i have both and just wondering what i should start out as far as pills per day or mg's. Is 5mg's a good starting point or is it to little...also, can you give me some advice on the 4derm...never used it before...Here is what i was thinking...please feel free to slam or praise it...thanks....

Week 1 5mg m-1t
week 2 5mg m-1t
week 3 10 mg
week 4 10 mg

Then PCT with 6-oxo

I have done my research on this and understand its a powerful sup, but, with the right choice's and correct usage, it can be a wonderful sup. Any type of cycle advice would be great... Let me know guys...thanks...


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Posted: Feb 27 2004, 01:56 PM
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youll want somewhere between 200-400mgs applied of the 4Derm every 12 hours

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Posted: Feb 29 2004, 08:43 PM
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goals are maximum LBM gain (hopefully in the neighborhood of 10lbs or so), minimum fat gain. i'm doing a 4-week cycle of 1-ad @ 400mg/day. pct will be 6-oxo, in tapering dosages as weeks pass (600mg, 400mg, 200mg). in order to minimize fat gain, i am planning on lipo-6 (2 caps before workout... hopefully this'll help give a fat-burning kick, as well as dissipate some of the lethargic sides of 1-ad), as well as fish oil caps (1000mg/cap, so 5 caps/daily). also, i'll be taking some b-5 to reduce acne... maybe 3-5g/day. cardio will be light and 3-4x per week. i'll do a 3 on/1off split, heavier compound movements, then some light isolation movements with the focus on time under tension and volume.
calories will be around 3200/day, ~200g protein, ~450g carbs, good fats (PB, fish oils, olive oil)
5'7'', 170lbs, bf~11%

questions: any suggestions for other methods/supps to keep fat gain to a minimum?
methods of dividing up doses for fish oil, 1-ad, b-5?
comments appreciated. thanks.

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Posted: Mar 1 2004, 05:26 AM
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Other than the fish oil, 7-keto-DHEA is reported to help reduce fat gain while bulking. You could try HCA which may have a small effect if you feel like spending the extra money. ALCAR, choline, and green tea may also help.

David Tolson
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Posted: Mar 3 2004, 01:34 PM
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anyone else have experience with this cycle or anymore advice before i start...thanks guys...i will post updated in a few weeks...thanks guys... biggrin.gif
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Posted: Mar 3 2004, 02:22 PM
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use nolva for PCT. it's cheaper and more effective than 6oxo

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Posted: Mar 3 2004, 03:56 PM
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QUOTE (Henry Julio @ Mar 3 2004, 02:22 PM)
use nolva for PCT. it's cheaper and more effective than 6oxo

Says who?

Health is not the absence of symptoms.
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Posted: Mar 3 2004, 09:17 PM
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well for a 4 week PCT you would need 2 bottles of 6oxo at 30 some dollars a pop and only one bottle of nolva at 40-50 dollars

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Posted: Mar 4 2004, 09:18 AM
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My post was more in regards to the "more effective" statement, the price will depend on many things.

Health is not the absence of symptoms.
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Posted: Mar 4 2004, 11:43 AM
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nolva is only available by perscription correct? Should i just tell my doc that i need it because of training purposes? Let me know...thanks guys....
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Posted: Mar 4 2004, 01:48 PM
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nolva is available with out a prescription, use a search engine. and as far as effectivness of nolva compared to 6oxo ask a veteran steroid user

The sun and moon... the ebb and flow
of the Pacific tides... global
warming... the very angle of the
Earth upon its axis... these are
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my world.
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Posted: Mar 5 2004, 07:01 AM
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You can buy nolva online even though it is technically illegal (even as a research chemical), search around. It is doubtful that a doctor would give you a prescription for that reason.

David Tolson
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